Hit on John Parker - Page 4

ih8tigers · September 28th, 2006, 11:59 PM

	Quote:	cbi1972
	If you have to watch the replay, it wasn't blatant.

Exactly. If you have to slow it down or watch it on TiVo, then you can't blame the linebacker for hitting JP. The linebacker doesn't have that luxury as he's sprinting full speed ahead. If I'm a linebacker and I think you are still in bounds, I'm going to do all I can to clean your clock. But I'm sure my response will just lead others here to think I'm an Aubie, as my non-popular opinion has before. Therefore, I'll save those of you who disagree with me the trouble of typing it: "Moo. Looks like the only computer in Lee county is on."

ih8tigers · September 29th, 2006, 12:08 AM

	Quote:	trenda
	Are you sure about that? You might want to look at Rule 9-1 H: "No opponent shall tackle or block the runner when he is clearly out of bounds or throw him to the ground after the ball becomes dead (A.R. 9- 1-2-XIII)."

Here's your problem with using that rule for your argument. I'm not so sure that statement can be so easily applied to this particular play.

JPT4Bama · September 29th, 2006, 12:20 AM

	Quote:	ih8tigers
	Exactly. If you have to slow it down or watch it on TiVo, then you can't blame the linebacker for hitting JP. The linebacker doesn't have that luxury as he's sprinting full speed ahead. If I'm a linebacker and I think you are still in bounds, I'm going to do all I can to clean your clock. But I'm sure my response will just lead others here to think I'm an Aubie, as my non-popular opinion has before. Therefore, I'll save those of you who disagree with me the trouble of typing it: "Moo. Looks like the only computer in Lee county is on."

Mooo...just kidding!

I thought the same thing (about the LB) and apparently so did the ref.

trenda · September 29th, 2006, 07:23 AM

	Quote:	ih8tigers
	Here's your problem with using that rule for your argument. I'm not so sure that statement can be so easily applied to this particular play.

I listed that rule in response to the following comment made by 12_4thetide:

	Quote:
	There is no infraction in the rule book listed "hitting someone out of bounds."

There is, indeed, an infraction in the rulebook regarding hitting someone out of bounds. My "argument" was that there is an infraction in the rule book that covers hitting someone out of bounds.

And, while maybe not so easily, it does apply to that play on the sideline. If there were an infraction, that would be it. JPW seemed to think he was hit out of bounds. As do many others.

IH8Orange · September 29th, 2006, 07:45 AM

When an opposing LB lays the wood on a QB that is not fighting for extra yardage, but instead yielding by running out-of-bounds, it is a breach of the "implied" rules of sportsmanship, even if the hit is technically legal.

The best way to handle that is to run a few plays directly at the LB and let your monster FB clean his clock so badly that he still feels it a couple of weeks later.

trenda · September 29th, 2006, 07:49 AM

Well put.

ih8tigers · September 29th, 2006, 09:39 AM

	Quote:	trenda
	I listed that rule in response to the following comment made by 12_4thetide: There is, indeed, an infraction in the rulebook regarding hitting someone out of bounds. My "argument" was that there is an infraction in the rule book that covers hitting someone out of bounds. And, while maybe not so easily, it does apply to that play on the sideline. If there were an infraction, that would be it. JPW seemed to think he was hit out of bounds. As do many others.

So let me get this right, if JPW thinks he's out of bounds, but the whistle hasn't been blown, the linebacker should automatically assume JPW is out of bounds and let up?

Here's the bottom line: JPW let up too close to the sideline and got reamed for it. Next time, he'd better make sure he's clearly out of bounds before he gets off of his horse. I wouldn't ask any less of my linebackers if I were a coach.

Here's a scenario:

Mike Shula: "Hey, Juwan! If it even remotely looks as if a quarterback, receiver, or running back is near the sideline and he slows his speed, you had better not hit him!"

Juwan: "But coach, the whistle hadn't been blown, I was running full speed, and what if he'd cut it back upfield for a couple more yards?"

Mike Shula: "I don't care, Juwan. We don't want to run the risk of a penalty being called. Next time, just hope he runs up the middle of the field so we don't have to speculate whether to hit him or not."

ih8tigers · September 29th, 2006, 09:42 AM

	Quote:	IH8Orange
	When an opposing LB lays the wood on a QB that is not fighting for extra yardage, but instead yielding by running out-of-bounds, it is a breach of the "implied" rules of sportsmanship, even if the hit is technically legal. The best way to handle that is to run a few plays directly at the LB and let your monster FB clean his clock so badly that he still feels it a couple of weeks later.

Please link me to the "Implied Rules Handbook of Collegiate Officiating". Please link me directly to the "implied" rules that constitute a flag being thrown.

12_4thetide · September 29th, 2006, 09:55 AM

	Quote:	trenda
	I listed that rule in response to the following comment made by 12_4thetide: There is, indeed, an infraction in the rulebook regarding hitting someone out of bounds. My "argument" was that there is an infraction in the rule book that covers hitting someone out of bounds. And, while maybe not so easily, it does apply to that play on the sideline. If there were an infraction, that would be it. JPW seemed to think he was hit out of bounds. As do many others.

Yes it is a “rule” you can’t hit someone out bounds. The “infraction” or “penalty” enforced is unnecessary roughness. i.e. I’m sure it’s stated that a lineman cant come out of his stance once he puts his hand on the ground. That’s a “rule.” The “infraction” or “penalty” is false start, not the player came out of his stance. The play is dead when the player steps out of bounds, but it is signaled to the other players with a whistle. If the play is bang-bang and before the whistle and the ref feels it was not unnecessary then he usually won’t throw a flag, and he didn’t. TommyMac is trying to be clever by getting online and looking at the rule book but anyone can do that and there are loop holes to every rule, you could back and forth all day. It all comes down to an official’s judgment. If not, there would be no need for officials. This is a no brainer. The call in the au/lsu game was questionable and the sec released a statement despite the fact they backed the call. The sec said nothing about the call, or non-call in this case, in the Ark game. Because there was no need. If this was Simpson hitting Mustain and a flag was thrown everyone arguing would be livid. I bet no one pulled up on Matt Jones until he was clearly out of bounds!

NYBamaFan · September 29th, 2006, 10:03 AM

	Quote:	IH8Orange
	When an opposing LB lays the wood on a QB that is not fighting for extra yardage, but instead yielding by running out-of-bounds, it is a breach of the "implied" rules of sportsmanship, even if the hit is technically legal. The best way to handle that is to run a few plays directly at the LB and let your monster FB clean his clock so badly that he still feels it a couple of weeks later.

While I agree with you in principle, I don't think that the players are likely to think that way in the heat of the game.

When a defensive player gets a chance to lay wood on any offensive player, they do so, especially the more aggressive players. The more frustrated the defensive player might be, the more "emphasis" he is likely to put into the hit.

If JPW wants to avoid injuries over the next 3 years, he need to learn to slide, throw the ball away, and get out of bounds when being pursued. Thinking that the defender might lay off will only get him hurt...

12_4thetide · September 29th, 2006, 10:03 AM

	Quote:	ih8tigers
	So let me get this right, if JPW thinks he's out of bounds, but the whistle hasn't been blown, the linebacker should automatically assume JPW is out of bounds and let up? Here's the bottom line: JPW let up too close to the sideline and got reamed for it. Next time, he'd better make sure he's clearly out of bounds before he gets off of his horse. I wouldn't ask any less of my linebackers if I were a coach. Here's a scenario: Mike Shula: "Hey, Juwan! If it even remotely looks as if a quarterback, receiver, or running back is near the sideline and he slows his speed, you had better not hit him!" Juwan: "But coach, the whistle hadn't been blown, I was running full speed, and what if he'd cut it back upfield for a couple more yards?" Mike Shula: "I don't care, Juwan. We don't want to run the risk of a penalty being called. Next time, just hope he runs up the middle of the field so we don't have to speculate whether to hit him or not."

well put

IH8Orange · September 29th, 2006, 10:07 AM

	Quote:	ih8tigers
	Please link me to the "Implied Rules Handbook of Collegiate Officiating". Please link me directly to the "implied" rules that constitute a flag being thrown.

Perhaps you should re-read my post.

I didn't say that a flag should be thrown. What I stated was that although a hit in-bounds on a QB that is clearly throwing in the towel and NOT attempting to make more yards is legal(that means that no flag should be thrown), it would be judged to be against most players' idea of good sportsmanship and therefore should be handled in a completely legal way on the field by just flat out plowing asunder the player that made the legal, yet somewhat cheap hit.

Illegal and excessive are not synonomous.

trenda · September 29th, 2006, 10:08 AM

	Quote:	ih8tigers
	So let me get this right, if JPW thinks he's out of bounds, but the whistle hasn't been blown, the linebacker should automatically assume JPW is out of bounds and let up? Here's the bottom line: JPW let up too close to the sideline and got reamed for it. Next time, he'd better make sure he's clearly out of bounds before he gets off of his horse. I wouldn't ask any less of my linebackers if I were a coach.

No need to try to get it right. You already have your opinion of what happened.

The bottom line as I see it is that if it were as plain and clear as you claim, no one would be commenting on it other than the fact that he got his clock cleaned. The fact that JPW - who was involved in the play - as well as coaches and many other onlookers thought it was questionable makes it debatable.

	Quote:
	Next time, he'd better make sure he's clearly out of bounds before he gets off of his horse.

Out of bounds is out of bounds. Whether it is two inches or two feet.