News Article: Bama penalties mostly fair, but this can’t keep happening

[crimsonbleeder]

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	Quote:	Maudiemae
	I cannot say that I know the details of this situation, but I do know that kids on scholarships violate the textbook rules all over the place and very frequently. I believe that if the NCAA were serious about keeping their athletes honest on that particular standard, they would have found many, many other colleges in violation, as well.

Yes, this is the point. I have several friends on scholarship, both athletic and academic (I was too, I know) and we ALL do/did this sort of thing. My issue is again, why Alabama is being singled out amongst all of the others. Let the NCAA get caught up investigating EVERY school...if they were fair they'd hand out penalties to EVERYONE.

Again, I'm tired of the (to borrow from another poster) "drive-by media" calling this another case of Alabama "cheating" when it clearly is not...

[Bamaro]

	Quote:	crimsonbleeder
	Yes, this is the point. I have several friends on scholarship, both athletic and academic (I was too, I know) and we ALL do/did this sort of thing. My issue is again, why Alabama is being singled out amongst all of the others. Let the NCAA get caught up investigating EVERY school...if they were fair they'd hand out penalties to EVERYONE. Again, I'm tired of the (to borrow from another poster) "drive-by media" calling this another case of Alabama "cheating" when it clearly is not...

Didn't we self report it? Once that happened we were made an example.

[crimsonbleeder]

	Quote:	Bamaro
	Didn't we self report it? Once that happened we were made an example.

Yep, NCZA sending mixed messages, yet again.

BTW, did anyone see that pompous Fat Bastard NCAA Infractions rep on Television last night with his attitude? I just wanted to punch him in his nose, but it was too high up in the air to reach...

[BAMARICH]

	Quote:	crimsonbleeder
	Yes, this is the point. I have several friends on scholarship, both athletic and academic (I was too, I know) and we ALL do/did this sort of thing. My issue is again, why Alabama is being singled out amongst all of the others. Let the NCAA get caught up investigating EVERY school...if they were fair they'd hand out penalties to EVERYONE. Again, I'm tired of the (to borrow from another poster) "drive-by media" calling this another case of Alabama "cheating" when it clearly is not...

It was self-reported... that's the difference between us and other schools. And you can bet that other schools have shredded/doctored documents and exerted great effort in cleaning up their processes in the matter.

Here's the bottom line that Jess states fairly well. It doesn't matter who else does it or how widespread it is among non-athletes. It's a practice that's wrong and it needs attention. Just as we have probably become an example of what happens when you turn yourself in for said offense, now we need to start becoming an example of how you fix the problem across the board. And if we don't have the competence to do it, then we will run into deeper, more significant problems in the future that will endanger the university.

[Ldlane]

	Quote:	BAMARICH
	It was self-reported... that's the difference between us and other schools. And you can bet that other schools have shredded/doctored documents and exerted great effort in cleaning up their processes in the matter. Here's the bottom line that Jess states fairly well. It doesn't matter who else does it or how widespread it is among non-athletes. It's a practice that's wrong and it needs attention. Just as we have probably become an example of what happens when you turn yourself in for said offense, now we need to start becoming an example of how you fix the problem across the board. And if we don't have the competence to do it, then we will run into deeper, more significant problems in the future that will endanger the university.

Exactly!

[BamaNation]

On the surface I entirely agree with your sentiments.

However, the problem is "who" the NCAA is. It is comprised of a million committees made up of pointy headed academics who - like politicians - have agendas unrelated to the realities of the battlefield upon which 'the war' is waged. Believe me, I see this EVERY day.

As Jess said, this has to stop. Firings need to take place and messages need to be sent directly to the athletes that we don't tolerate this crap anymore. Frankly, as I stated yesterday, it wouldn't bother me in the least to see the athletes with the $2K-$4K bills be kicked out of school and prosecuted. However, on the NCAA-level, this shouldn't even be a blip...but b/c we were already on the NCAAs bad list, we're headed directly for the giant torpedo if it doesn't stop.

	Quote:	crimsonbleeder
	There's something about this whole affair that keeps nagging me. It just doesn't seem right... These infractions were so minor, and I know for an absolute fact that they occur EVERYWHERE...EVERYWHERE... ANY TIME a kid can get a little extra cash they're gonna do it. So my issue is that, again, we try to do the "right thing", and from all appearances (and even from the NCAA's mouths), indeed HAVE done all the right things, yet we are penalized for a nonissue with more probation. And this is the rub. While we are all relieved that some axe-grinders at the NCZA couldn't make enough of a case to give us more penalties, I am VERY concerned about the probationary thing. I think this just gives any of those people (and they do exist, whether we want to believe it or not) who have a vendetta that much more of a charge to find stuff, no matter how minor, in order to try and bring the program down, or at least make Saban leave due to some stupid crap... I really hope that the University blasts out on an appeal and gets the probation reversed or at least lessened. Couldn't care less about the vacated wins...they mean nothing. The probation and the whole "repeat offender" status is the central problem, and should NOT have been used in this case for such trivial and minor transgressions. AND, how can you be told you have "failure to monitor", when your monitoring actually finds a problem? I don't understand that one... I'm sick of this crap too, but I really am beginning to believe that there is some sort of behind the scenes crap going on between people in the NCAA and other programs. Sometimes, being paranoid is reality...

[Ldlane]

	Quote:	BamaNation
	On the surface I entirely agree with your sentiments. However, the problem is "who" the NCAA is. It is comprised of a million committees made up of pointy headed academics who - like politicians - have agendas unrelated to the realities of the battlefield upon which 'the war' is waged. Believe me, I see this EVERY day. As Jess said, this has to stop. Firings need to take place and messages need to be sent directly to the athletes that we don't tolerate this crap anymore. Frankly, as I stated yesterday, it wouldn't bother me in the least to see the athletes with the $2K-$4K bills be kicked out of school and prosecuted.

To me "monitoring" means that you prevent the problem from happening and being directly on top of the situation to make corrections. "Self Reporting" after the 201st student has done this is not "monitoring". People in Admin positions are "responsible" for the event happening, "being in the know" and troubleshooting. Basically, in education you are accountable for the students and their behavior whether we choose to think so or not!

[Maudiemae]

I really do have a conspiracy theory attitude about the NCAA/Bama relationship. and I still say if they wanted to cut down on athletic scholarship textbook fraud a whole lot more schools would be goin' down for it, but I also think fans probably should stick together in regard to violations as a whole. Ultimately, fans pay a pretty hefty price when their team is penalized by probations. Perhaps that's part of the NCAA's strategy. First we get defensive and resentful and then we get sick of it. Maybe, after more than one experience followed too closely by another, we apply more pressure on the administration to monitor the athletic system and comply. I still feel picked on and am hanging on to my sour grapes as hard as I can, though.

[RkyMtnTide]

Excellent Article JessN...

Once again, Nail, please remove your hat, I 'd like you to meet Hammer.

What really bugs me is the "vacating of wins" part because it seems so trivial, especially when there are no championships attached.

Correct me if I am wrong, but none of the football players received a competitive advantage or lost amatuer status over this, so why penalize entire teams?

It seems like "vacating" is just the NCZA's version of calling us names... its stupid, but still ...... me off!

But if I had to choose vacated wins or reduction of probation, I would take the latter all day long...

[GrayTide]

	Quote:	Ldlane
	It can be done, but it will take someone that knows that they are accountable and should "be in the know" about everything that is happening. Those textbooks can be traced and are "registered" at the time they are dispersed. It will also take athletes with the "character" and love for their team that they won't do anything stupid like what happened.

That is your answer and it is not just at Alabama. I am afraid the character quality is in short supply with athletes in Tuscaloosa.

[USCBAMA]

Never has one man bungled his job so badly for so long and still received blind loyalty from his employers (the fans and University). Why this doesn't start and end at the top of the athletic administration is beyond me. When will Bama fans wake up?

As a Bama fan in Columbia, SC this is beyond embarrassing. The old "everyone else is doing it" excuse doesn't fly when my 7-year old uses it and doesn't fly for UA either.

All that said the forfeits are ridiculous and should be appealed. Rest of infractions are appropriate.

[Airborne Tider]

	Quote:	USCBAMA
	Never has one man bungled his job so badly for so long and still received blind loyalty from his employers (the fans and University). Why this doesn't start and end at the top of the athletic administration is beyond me. When will Bama fans wake up? As a Bama fan in Columbia, SC this is beyond embarrassing. The old "everyone else is doing it" excuse doesn't fly when my 7-year old uses it and doesn't fly for UA either. All that said the forfeits are ridiculous and should be appealed. Rest of infractions are appropriate.

Well first off I definitely wouldn't call it blind loyalty. No man is bigger than this glorious university. Mal has done a lot of good for this university and I think he should be given his due credit and respect for that. Even Nick speaks highly of Mal. But at the same time some in his AD have failed to do their jobs properly which has kept a stigma of cheating over this program. Mal should be given the chance to retire quietly and not have Bama fans trash him for the rest of his life but I think he needs to go soon and take many in the AD with him. Let Nick and Dr. Witt re-vamp the AD from top to bottom and let's start focusing on ourselves and winning championships and stop focusing on what everyone else is getting away with that we're not. RTR.

[JDCrimson]

You know many professional service firms are in fact required to undergo a peer review every few years to do exactly this - find weaknesses that you are otherwise are unaware of or to provide some accountability for the really lame things you should be keeping up with - like textbook abuse. I think this would be excellent practice for the UofA and I know it would be for the firm who gets the contract. You know sorta like painting the Golden Gate bridge.

But, let me state, regardless of who was responsible for this failure (I think it was Academic Affairs but may have been Compliance, you never can really know ), I HAVE NO CONFIDENCE THAT THE CURRENT ESTABLISHMENT WITHIN THE AD CAN KEEP US SANCTION FREE FOR THE NEXT 3 YEARS/5 YEARS WHATEVER IT IS! So we better be coming up with another plan fast. The only people I do have confidence in to approach this situation is Dr. Witt and CNS. Both are No-BS kind of people. Somehow, I think we could outsource the running of the AD out to the UA Manderson Graduate School of Business and come out with better results.

I dont think there has been a commitment to "hire the best and the brighest" within our AD in the past. But on the other hand, not knowing the environment or culture within, it could be a real grind working there with enormous responsibility and stress and most staffers not making more than you or me. You are bound to miss things and let things slide from time to time.

But I will say, tactically, I think we definitely have a flawed system when it comes to compliance and how we deal with the NCAA. I honestly dont think our program is any more negligent or corrupt than any other member institution. I think it is more a case of the NCAA acting like Biff and we keep acting like McFly. They keep picking on us because we keep making it so easy for them even by trying to play by their rules. Look, its kinda of like dealing with the IRS you just cant cooperate with these people - it doesnt work in your favor, NEVER, regardless of what they say.

Basically, at this point, our only option is we have to weather this probationary period and the repeat violator window unscathed, meaning every program within the AD has to be monitored like some nuclear launch procedure. After that, we need to grow some and quit peeing in our pants everytime we hear the letters NCAA.