News Article: "LSU-Bama Is Still About the Coaches" - Page 5

LSU63 · November 3rd, 2009, 05:21 PM

	Quote:	Bamabuzzard
	I really don't see what it proves either way for either side.

Yes, and it'll take several (or at least a few more) seasons before we get a handle on it. Even then, if Bama and LSU continue to slug it out in the west, it may never get answered. So what?

I'm glad it's becoming more and more about LSU/Bama though. You'll always have nuts on both sides, and it'll be easy to find one to support your argument, but I can tell you from the papers and sports talk radio here in BR, we're all more excited that this game has major SECW implications, than whose coaching.

Both schools are bigger than a coach, and that's how it should be. Fla proved that.

rizolltizide · November 3rd, 2009, 05:56 PM

Glenn Guilbeau wears Ray Melick pajamas.

rizolltizide · November 3rd, 2009, 06:03 PM

	Quote:	red55
	This only works for Nick of course. When Nick steps on campus all the players already there are his. When he leaves a campus all the players left behind are his. You guys crack me up.

Oy vey amigo.

TIDE-HSV · November 3rd, 2009, 06:19 PM

	Quote:
	If I'm wrong, I'll have a big steaming bowl of crow and boudin gumbo.

I'll join you so long as they don't throw in the 'dillo...

TIDE-HSV · November 3rd, 2009, 06:20 PM

	Quote:	rizolltizide
	Oy vey amigo.

Are you Sephardim?

Fishhead · November 3rd, 2009, 08:51 PM

	Quote:	Bamabuzzard
	The crux of the argument is both sides thinks they have the better coach and wants the other side to admit it.

I cannot remember ever seeing or hearing an LSU fan say Les Miles is a better coach that Nick Saban. I don't think that is what it's about.
-
When Saban was at LSU, he was held in very high regard by LSU fans. After enduring the 90s, it was a breath of fresh air to wonder which bowl game we would be in, instead of hoping against hope that we would make ANY bowl game. The last second losses (all seemingly caused by lapses in the secondary, supposedly his specialty) stung for a week...but were forgotten soon after when we would blow the next opponent out. Same with the blowout losses LSU suffered while he was there. They were to teams we were used to being blown out by, such as UF, Bama, and UGA. Then he left to chase his dream. Nothing wrong with that, but the way he did it made LSU fans come to their own conclusion about who he is...what he really stands for. Right or wrong, it was...and is...a common conclusion. Add to it the fact that his last game as LSU coach ended the way a few others did that we had forgotten about...an agregious lapse in the secondary on the last play of the game...against a team we should have dominated. Suddenly, we remembered those other losses...remembered the blowouts to the teams we were used to being blown out by, and remembered losing to UA friggin' B. We even finally realized that...as amazing as it was...the Bluegrass Miracle should've never happened. We were way better than KY, and it shouldn't have been necessary. (CNS still says the same thing...and he's right)
-
Then came Miles. IMHO, there were enough distractions going on to forgive it, but the fact is, he blew his first game in TS against Tennessee. At that point, LSU fans didn't know what to think...trying to withhold judgement considering the ridiculous circumstances. The team rebounded, didn't lose another game until the SECCG, where we were blown out and lost Jamarcus Russell. Again, reservations crept in, but were quickly pushed aside with a blowout against higher ranked and favored Miami. We finished #5 in the country. The next season, we were IMO jobbed at AU...by Jimbo Fisher... and the refs. Then came out flat against UF. But still, weren't ever blown out...and wound up finishing very strong. IMO, at the end of that season, we were the best team in the country. Destroyed ND in the 'Dome...about 1 day after Saban signed on at Bama. Finished #3 in the country. Saban said some things about "his boys" winning the Sugar, and the fight was on.
-
Les started out the next year mouthing off about Saban...probably miffed about Saban's comments after the Sugar...but also probably trying to get LSU fans to rally around him. For the most part, it worked...although a good percentage were already in his camp. Won the NC that year...even with 2 losses...we still earned that trophy. Les Miles deserves the credit for getting his team ready to play...including the SECCG game with all the hoopla pre game and with Flynn out for the game. To my knowledge, Saban didn't claim any part of that...but a lot of Bama fans...and other, FWIW, gave him credit anyway. He recruited most of that team, but never coached any of them for more than a year or two...when they were riding pine. It was so obviously Les' team...he had coached them for 3 years...and it was a tight unit...they loved Les...and so did LSU fans.
-
At this point, MOST LSU fans were in the Les Miles camp. He says some crazy things, but we like his human side. He's our coach, but even we have no clue what he's saying half the time. I personally think he does a lot of it on purpose...and yes, sometimes it bites him in the hind end. (R-kansas??)

But what gets LSU fans riled is the commonly held opinion that, with all the talent Saban left for him...a better coach would've NEVER lost. All we hear...from not just Bama fans, mind you...was that LSU has more talent than ANYONE...yet still loses a couple of games in trip OT to lesser teams. Nevermind that Pete Carroll has every bit the talent that LSU does...even more...and loses to the likes of Stanford, UCLA, the entire state of Oregon, Washington, et al...every single year. Nevermind that a Saban led Bama loses to UL friggin' M. It's forgiven because he's rebuilding Bama...has to deal with Shula's players. We said the same thing when we lost to UAB...but deep down, we all know that NO SEC team...not even Vandy...should ever have any trouble with UAB or ULM. There isn't a player on either of those two teams that could make the two deep at an SEC school.
It bugs LSU fans that when Les calls a pass play when a fairly long FG MIGHT win the game...it's a stupid lucky play. Nevermind that there was over 20 seconds on the clock when Flynn stepped under center...and 3 seconds when Byrd caught the game winning TD. Had it fallen incomplete, big deal. Still 3 seconds to try the FG. And with Hester and a great OL, he was stupid and lucky to go for (and make) five 4th down conversions to beat UF. What a gambler...risk taker...lucky...his luck's gonna run out sooner or later. To me, it was very good coaching. He knew he had the players to pull it off...so he went for it...and won. He takes VERY few risks now...because he has a team full of sophomores and freshmen. Talented, but unproven. He really knows what he's doing...but he's still considered stupid and lucky for doing what worked back then.
-
Again, I know of no LSU fan that thinks Les Miles is a BETTER coach...and few who think he's as good a coach as Saban. But it's tiring to hear how terrible and lucky and stupid and winning only because of Saban he is. THAT is the issue.
-
I know it doesn't matter...and believe it or not, I don't lose sleep over it. Just wanted to clarify. We don't think we have the better coach. We just think he's a great coach...and quite frankly, we just like him.

Bama1993 · November 3rd, 2009, 09:16 PM

	Quote:	rizolltizide
	Glenn Guilbeau wears Ray Melick pajamas.

Bamabuzzard · November 3rd, 2009, 09:52 PM

I'm not going to comment on all the points within your post because it's just too long. Not meaning that as a bad thing. But the overriding message of what I'm getting from your post is "LSU fans are tired of hearing (fill in the blank)".

Well, all I can tell you is welcome to Alabama's world. You know how many things we've gotten "tired of hearing" that just seems to simply not go away?

"The reason y'all won those championships is because y'all cheated."

"ALL Bama fans live in the past"

"ALL Bama fans are 'delusional'"

If LSU fans are tired of hearing it then stop responding to it, which will stop feeding the fire and and it will eventually pass. But people's personal experiences form their opinions. You may not think that LSU fans aren't trying to convince people that Les is the better coach but I've experienced otherwise. I live in Louisiana and have since 1996. So I experienced the LSU fan base pre-championship success, during and post Nick Saban/Les Miles situation. My personal experiences (off message board interactions) are that THE LSU FANS are the ones that keep bringing it up. I can't tell you how many times I've come in contact with LSU fans, they see I have a bama shirt or cap on and without me even saying anything they go into a rant about Les Miles is a better coach, "we're happy with him and y'all can have Saban."

My standard response is "Okay, you got the better coach", then take another sip of my beer and stare. Its amazing how quickly (by me not feeding the fire with responding) we move past the subject to talking football and enjoying ourselves.

Since I've been over here in Louisiana I've had to learn to stop caring about what people think about Alabama's program. Because if I did I'd be on every anti-depressant known to man. I've heard it all from the phrases I mentioned above to some other that I can't even put on this board. I've been bombarded with them for the better part of 13 years now. The day I stopped giving two rips about what some rival fan thought about Alabama was the day I got the upper hand. And it feels good to be in control.

	Quote:	Fishhead
	I cannot remember ever seeing or hearing an LSU fan say Les Miles is a better coach that Nick Saban. I don't think that is what it's about. - When Saban was at LSU, he was held in very high regard by LSU fans. After enduring the 90s, it was a breath of fresh air to wonder which bowl game we would be in, instead of hoping against hope that we would make ANY bowl game. The last second losses (all seemingly caused by lapses in the secondary, supposedly his specialty) stung for a week...but were forgotten soon after when we would blow the next opponent out. Same with the blowout losses LSU suffered while he was there. They were to teams we were used to being blown out by, such as UF, Bama, and UGA. Then he left to chase his dream. Nothing wrong with that, but the way he did it made LSU fans come to their own conclusion about who he is...what he really stands for. Right or wrong, it was...and is...a common conclusion. Add to it the fact that his last game as LSU coach ended the way a few others did that we had forgotten about...an agregious lapse in the secondary on the last play of the game...against a team we should have dominated. Suddenly, we remembered those other losses...remembered the blowouts to the teams we were used to being blown out by, and remembered losing to UA friggin' B. We even finally realized that...as amazing as it was...the Bluegrass Miracle should've never happened. We were way better than KY, and it shouldn't have been necessary. (CNS still says the same thing...and he's right) - Then came Miles. IMHO, there were enough distractions going on to forgive it, but the fact is, he blew his first game in TS against Tennessee. At that point, LSU fans didn't know what to think...trying to withhold judgement considering the ridiculous circumstances. The team rebounded, didn't lose another game until the SECCG, where we were blown out and lost Jamarcus Russell. Again, reservations crept in, but were quickly pushed aside with a blowout against higher ranked and favored Miami. We finished #5 in the country. The next season, we were IMO jobbed at AU...by Jimbo Fisher... and the refs. Then came out flat against UF. But still, weren't ever blown out...and wound up finishing very strong. IMO, at the end of that season, we were the best team in the country. Destroyed ND in the 'Dome...about 1 day after Saban signed on at Bama. Finished #3 in the country. Saban said some things about "his boys" winning the Sugar, and the fight was on. - Les started out the next year mouthing off about Saban...probably miffed about Saban's comments after the Sugar...but also probably trying to get LSU fans to rally around him. For the most part, it worked...although a good percentage were already in his camp. Won the NC that year...even with 2 losses...we still earned that trophy. Les Miles deserves the credit for getting his team ready to play...including the SECCG game with all the hoopla pre game and with Flynn out for the game. To my knowledge, Saban didn't claim any part of that...but a lot of Bama fans...and other, FWIW, gave him credit anyway. He recruited most of that team, but never coached any of them for more than a year or two...when they were riding pine. It was so obviously Les' team...he had coached them for 3 years...and it was a tight unit...they loved Les...and so did LSU fans. - At this point, MOST LSU fans were in the Les Miles camp. He says some crazy things, but we like his human side. He's our coach, but even we have no clue what he's saying half the time. I personally think he does a lot of it on purpose...and yes, sometimes it bites him in the hind end. (R-kansas??) But what gets LSU fans riled is the commonly held opinion that, with all the talent Saban left for him...a better coach would've NEVER lost. All we hear...from not just Bama fans, mind you...was that LSU has more talent than ANYONE...yet still loses a couple of games in trip OT to lesser teams. Nevermind that Pete Carroll has every bit the talent that LSU does...even more...and loses to the likes of Stanford, UCLA, the entire state of Oregon, Washington, et al...every single year. Nevermind that a Saban led Bama loses to UL friggin' M. It's forgiven because he's rebuilding Bama...has to deal with Shula's players. We said the same thing when we lost to UAB...but deep down, we all know that NO SEC team...not even Vandy...should ever have any trouble with UAB or ULM. There isn't a player on either of those two teams that could make the two deep at an SEC school. It bugs LSU fans that when Les calls a pass play when a fairly long FG MIGHT win the game...it's a stupid lucky play. Nevermind that there was over 20 seconds on the clock when Flynn stepped under center...and 3 seconds when Byrd caught the game winning TD. Had it fallen incomplete, big deal. Still 3 seconds to try the FG. And with Hester and a great OL, he was stupid and lucky to go for (and make) five 4th down conversions to beat UF. What a gambler...risk taker...lucky...his luck's gonna run out sooner or later. To me, it was very good coaching. He knew he had the players to pull it off...so he went for it...and won. He takes VERY few risks now...because he has a team full of sophomores and freshmen. Talented, but unproven. He really knows what he's doing...but he's still considered stupid and lucky for doing what worked back then. - Again, I know of no LSU fan that thinks Les Miles is a BETTER coach...and few who think he's as good a coach as Saban. But it's tiring to hear how terrible and lucky and stupid and winning only because of Saban he is. THAT is the issue. - I know it doesn't matter...and believe it or not, I don't lose sleep over it. Just wanted to clarify. We don't think we have the better coach. We just think he's a great coach...and quite frankly, we just like him.

TIDE-HSV · November 3rd, 2009, 10:20 PM

	Quote:	Bamabuzzard
	I'm not going to comment on all the points within your post because it's just too long. Not meaning that as a bad thing. But the overriding message of what I'm getting from your post is "LSU fans are tired of hearing (fill in the blank)". Well, all I can tell you is welcome to Alabama's world. You know how many things we've gotten "tired of hearing" that just seems to simply not go away? "The reason y'all won those championships is because y'all cheated." "ALL Bama fans live in the past" "ALL Bama fans are 'delusional'" If LSU fans are tired of hearing it then stop responding to it, which will stop feeding the fire and and it will eventually pass. But people's personal experiences form their opinions. You may not think that LSU fans aren't trying to convince people that Les is the better coach but I've experienced otherwise. I live in Louisiana and have since 1996. So I experienced the LSU fan base pre-championship success, during and post Nick Saban/Les Miles situation. My personal experiences (off message board interactions) are that THE LSU FANS are the ones that keep bringing it up. I can't tell you how many times I've come in contact with LSU fans, they see I have a bama shirt or cap on and without me even saying anything they go into a rant about Les Miles is a better coach, "we're happy with him and y'all can have Saban." My standard response is "Okay, you got the better coach", then take another sip of my beer and stare. Its amazing how quickly (by me not feeding the fire with responding) we move past the subject to talking football and enjoying ourselves. Since I've been over here in Louisiana I've had to learn to stop caring about what people think about Alabama's program. Because if I did I'd be on every anti-depressant known to man. I've heard it all from the phrases I mentioned above to some other that I can't even put on this board. I've been bombarded with them for the better part of 13 years now. The day I stopped giving two rips about what some rival fan thought about Alabama was the day I got the upper hand. And it feels good to be in control.

POTD!

Fishhead · November 3rd, 2009, 10:44 PM

That is a great post...and solid advice, I'm sure. It proves that...no matter which side you're on...you only hear what you wanna hear. I only pay attention to the "Less" Miles from Bama fans, you only hear the "$aban" from LSU fans. You're correct and I stand corrected on this fact. I took GCTs amazingly arrogant post(s) and ran with them...even though there were plenty of rational posts...with a couple even predicting a Bama loss this weekend. But...
-
Are you saying you've never heard an LSU fan say Saban>Miles?? Reading your post above would indicate otherwise...but I know you've heard it. Again, I hear only what I allow myself to hear, you hear only what you allow yourself to hear. Doesn't really matter, because YOU aren't the arrogant type. But there are COUNTLESS posts on this and other sites claiming that LSU fans want Saban back...which flies in the face of your claim that LSU fans all around you claim Les is the better coach.
-
I guess I don't know anything about "Bama cheated", but I do think Bama fans live in the past. Who wouldn't with that past? It doesn't mean nobody else can have success in the same league with Bama. Bama has nothing to do with LSU's recent successes. Nick Saban has plenty to do with LSUs successes from 2000-2004...and nothing to do with them since.
-
And no, I have NEVER heard or read an LSU fan saying Les Miles is a greater coach than Nick Saban. I've heard them say he's as good as Saban. I've said myself he's at least as good a recruiter. I've heard plenty say Les is a better man...more trustworthy...honest. But I've never heard any LSU fan say Miles is a better coach than Saban...ever.

Bamabuzzard · November 4th, 2009, 12:32 AM

	Quote:	Fishhead
	But there are COUNTLESS posts on this and other sites claiming that LSU fans want Saban back...which flies in the face of your claim that LSU fans all around you claim Les is the better coach. -

Most (not all) LSU fans in MY PERSONAL experience in MY COMMUNITY (not just on a website) have the standpoint of Les is the better coach and we can have Saban, which is fine with me. I interact with probably a small percentage of the LSU fan base. So there maybe some that say they want Saban back. But I haven't met any. My experiences are the opposite. Other people's claims that LSU fans want Saban back maybe from their own personal experiences. And everybody's personal experiences with fanbases are different. So I can't argue for or against those that say "LSU fans want Saban back."

But I've stopped responding to "Bama fans are delusional", "Bama fans live in the past", "Bama has to cheat to win ", "Bama fans are arrogant" etc type threads and posts. These are topics that lead to no productive and logical end and normally end up with childish name calling and mud slinging. My football experience got a whole lot better.

rizolltizide · November 4th, 2009, 10:15 AM

	Quote:	LSU63
	No doubt, but as long as it's not ugly or personal attacks, it's fun debating. Who wants to always be around people who think just like you?

L. Ron Hubbard?

CapitalTider · November 4th, 2009, 10:32 AM

In fairness, leave it to our boy Scabs to try and stir the Bama faithful by saying Miles has surpassed Saban.

Scarbinsky: Keep it under your hat, but Les Miles passed Nick Saban at LSU | Scarblog - al.com

All in all I thought it was a decent and fair article. The bit about the way Miles talks is funny and true I suppose, something I never really paid any attention to.