For those that don't know this...

bamaump8 · September 17th, 2008, 01:21 PM

There are only a few penalties that are automatic first downs. Roughing the passer, roughing the snapper (on punts and field goal tries), roughing the kicker, and roughing the holder are the only penalties (if I am wrong tidehawk please correct me) that are automatic first downs. Just because the penalty is 10 or 15 yards against the defense doesn't make it an automatic first down. It depends on where the penalty is enforced and if the yardage gained makes it a first down. During my game Friday night, we had a good many penalties that were 15 yards and you could here the crowd (and coaches) screaming that it should be an automatic first down. In college that may be the case, but in high school it is not.

bamajake · September 17th, 2008, 06:30 PM

Not bad bamaump, but you did leave one out. Defensive pass interference also carries an automatic first down. That and the roughing penalties are the only ones that do so.

A lot of people also don't realize that if there is a foul by the defense after a fourth down play that does not gain a first down, such as a late hit, the defensive team still gets the ball. They are penalized and have first and 10.

Jref · September 18th, 2008, 11:02 AM

	Quote:	bamaump8
	During my game Friday night, we had a good many penalties that were 15 yards and you could here the crowd (and coaches) screaming that it should be an automatic first down. In college that may be the case, but in high school it is not.

This once again points out that HS, college and NFL all play under slightly different rules sets. In college & NFL, any Personal Foul penalty also carries an automatic first down. That's not the case in high school.

As an old coach once told me:

"Pro rules are made mainly for TV. College rules are made mainly for the coaches. High school rules are made mainly for the safety of the players."

tidehawk · September 19th, 2008, 03:43 PM

	Quote:	Jref
	This once again points out that HS, college and NFL all play under slightly different rules sets. In college & NFL, any Personal Foul penalty also carries an automatic first down. That's not the case in high school. As an old coach once told me: "Pro rules are made mainly for TV. College rules are made mainly for the coaches. High school rules are made mainly for the safety of the players."

Jref, one thing that really gets me is how many HS coaches don't know the HS rules. They watch on Sat. & sun. like everyone else and think HS rules are the same. It is sad.

bamaump8 · September 22nd, 2008, 11:53 AM

	Quote:	tidehawk
	Jref, one thing that really gets me is how many HS coaches don't know the HS rules. They watch on Sat. & sun. like everyone else and think HS rules are the same. It is sad.

That iseven after they go to the same rules clinics that we, as officials, have to go to. It is the same for almost any sport in high school. It is even worse when you get a high school baseball coach that played in college and/or the pros and thinks that he knows the rules.

September 22nd, 2008, 03:57 PM

Is DEFENSIVE holding an automatic first down in HS?

bamajake · September 22nd, 2008, 05:14 PM

Nope. The only penalties that carry an automatic first down in high school are the 4 roughing penalties and defensive pass interference.

By the way, although most people don't know this and it is very rarely called, if an official deems the pass interference to be intentional, an additional 15 yards can be added to the penalty for a total of 30 yards.

bamaump8 · September 25th, 2008, 05:31 PM

	Quote:	bamajake
	Nope. The only penalties that carry an automatic first down in high school are the 4 roughing penalties and defensive pass interference. By the way, although most people don't know this and it is very rarely called, if an official deems the pass interference to be intentional, an additional 15 yards can be added to the penalty for a total of 30 yards.

Good call Jake. The intentional part had to be pretty obvious for that to be called though.

bamajake · September 25th, 2008, 05:58 PM

	Quote:
	Good call Jake. The intentional part had to be pretty obvious for that to be called though.

You ain't kidding. I have never personally seen it called. My guess is that if it is called, there will be an additional 15 yards added for unsportsmanlike conduct when the coach finds out that his team is being penalized 30 yards.

bamaump8 · September 26th, 2008, 04:45 PM

	Quote:	bamajake
	You ain't kidding. I have never personally seen it called. My guess is that if it is called, there will be an additional 15 yards added for unsportsmanlike conduct when the coach finds out that his team is being penalized 30 yards.

It is like some of the baseball rules that I have to inforce. It is very rare that you have to call them, but when you do, get ready to eject someone.