NFHS Rules Question

VolFan1 · August 6th, 2009, 06:59 PM

Team A lines up in punt formation, 4th and 7. Ball is snapped, ball is punted...it goes 10 yards past the line of scrimmage where it is muffed by the receiving team. After the muff it rolls back behind the original line of scrimmage. The kicking team (team A) picks it up behind the LOS and throws a pass 8 yards down field and it is dropped by the WR and incomplete.

Who gets the ball and where?

VolFan1 · August 7th, 2009, 07:11 PM

No takers?

1 - Receiving team/Defense gets the ball at the previous spot 1st & 10
2 - Kicking team/offense gets the ball at the previous spot 1st & 10
3 - Illegal forward pass Defense/Receiving teams gets ball at previous spot 1st & 10
4 - Illegal forward pass - defense/receiving team gets ball at previous spot + 10 yards

aden · August 9th, 2009, 07:03 PM

receiving team assumes possession of the ball , 1st and 10 from the previous spot.

bamajake · August 14th, 2009, 11:14 AM

Very good aden. The key is that it was picked up behind the line. The kicking team could then run it, pass it or kick it again.

bamajake · August 14th, 2009, 11:37 AM

Hold on. Wait a minute. I guess I should have read the situation a little more carefully. Assuming the muff by the receiving team was the first touch of the ball after it passed the neutral zone it would be the kicking team's ball, not the receiving team's.

VolFan1 · August 14th, 2009, 01:25 PM

	Quote:	bamajake
	Hold on. Wait a minute. I guess I should have read the situation a little more carefully. Assuming the muff by the receiving team was the first touch of the ball after it passed the neutral zone it would be the kicking team's ball, not the receiving team's.

Correct

Rule 5-1-3f

aden · August 16th, 2009, 10:32 AM

i BELIEVE IT WOULD STILL BE R'S BALL SINCE K DID NOT GET PAST THE LINE TO GAIN ON THE COMPLETED PASS.SINCE IT WAS FOURTH DOWN, POSSESSION WOULD CHANGE ON DOWNS.
ADEN

bamajake · August 17th, 2009, 09:53 AM

VolFan referenced the correct rule. Whenever there is a scrimmage kick (punt, field goal) and the kicked ball goes beyond the neutral zone and the ball is first touched by the receiving team, the team that winds up with possession at the end of the play gets the ball first and ten. I know it sounds strange, but that is the rule in high school ball.

VolFan1 · August 17th, 2009, 12:15 PM

	Quote:	bamajake
	VolFan referenced the correct rule. Whenever there is a scrimmage kick (punt, field goal) and the kicked ball goes beyond the neutral zone and the ball is first touched by the receiving team, the team that winds up with possession at the end of the play gets the ball first and ten. I know it sounds strange, but that is the rule in high school ball.

It seems to be a rule that has no real explantion of why. It is just a rule and that is how it is.

It would make more sense to me if once the incomplete pass was thrown that the defense would get posession 1st & 10 at the previous spot. But that is not how it works, for some reason.

bamajake · August 17th, 2009, 03:17 PM

Want to take it a little further? Assume the same situation as described in the original post with one change. Assume that when the kicking team picked it up behind the line of scrimmage instead of throwing a pass the player punted it again. The ball went 30 yards and began rolling on the ground on the receiving team's 5 yard line without being touched by anyone from either team. A player from the kicking team gets to the ball and gains possession of the ball at the 5. Who gets the ball? That's right, the kicking team gets it first and goal from the 5. I hope this never happens in one of my games because I'll never be able to explain it to the coach of the receiving team.

VolFan1 · August 17th, 2009, 07:44 PM

	Quote:	bamajake
	Want to take it a little further? Assume the same situation as described in the original post with one change. Assume that when the kicking team picked it up behind the line of scrimmage instead of throwing a pass the player punted it again. The ball went 30 yards and began rolling on the ground on the receiving team's 5 yard line without being touched by anyone from either team. A player from the kicking team gets to the ball and gains possession of the ball at the 5. Who gets the ball? That's right, the kicking team gets it first and goal from the 5. I hope this never happens in one of my games because I'll never be able to explain it to the coach of the receiving team.

Didn't know that. I guess it is like this due to the original muff by R. That one is really odd....do you have a rule reference for this? Is it the same rule?

What happens if your above scenario happens but the ball rolls out of bounds at the 5?

bamajake · August 18th, 2009, 03:18 PM

Same rule reference. Quite frankly, I don't think that is what the rulesmakers intended but if you follow the rule, that will be your result.

As to your second question, there is a separate rule [5-1-3(e)] that gives the ball to the receivers. That rule says that a new series is awarded (i.e., first down) to the receiving team if the kicking team legally kicks during a scrimmage down and the ball is recovered by the receivers, is in joint possession of the opponents, goes out of bounds or becomes dead with no player possession. In that situation the kick would be legal and the ball went out of bounds. Therefore, first and ten receivers at the 5.

aden · August 19th, 2009, 10:07 PM

confusing scenerios but it could and probably has already occured. If it s gonna happen it will be in the kicking game!