You Make the call

LABUB · October 2nd, 2009, 10:21 AM

Late in 2nd quarter or 4th quarter. Team A is trying to score. QB is in shotgun and spikes the ball to the ground as soon as he receives the snap. Say it's 2nd down and 5. What is the down and distance and when do you start the clock.

NYBamaFan · October 2nd, 2009, 12:39 PM

Good question. I do not know if the HS rules differ, here...

VolFan1 · October 2nd, 2009, 01:20 PM

It is intentional grounding on the QB, since he is spiking it from shotgun.

Loss of down and 5 yards.

3rd and 10...and I think the clock will start on the snap.

LABUB · October 2nd, 2009, 01:57 PM

The topic of discussion at our meeting this week was the starting of the clock. The rule book says something to this effect. If a team is trying to conserve time illegally the referee has the authority to start & stop the clock. We take this to mean the referee could start the clock on the ready for play, in lieu of the snap. What do you think?

NYBamaFan · October 2nd, 2009, 02:22 PM

	Quote:	LABUB
	The topic of discussion at our meeting this week was the starting of the clock. The rule book says something to this effect. If a team is trying to conserve time illegally the referee has the authority to start & stop the clock. We take this to mean the referee could start the clock on the ready for play, in lieu of the snap. What do you think?

I am not a ref, but it sounds like that is what they intended - that the ref use discretion and not allow a team to use a penalty to their benefit with regards to clock management.

That said, if the player simply made a mistake by taking the snap from the wrong formation and I were the ref, I would let the clock start at the snap.

Jref · October 2nd, 2009, 04:42 PM

You guys are really close.

On intentional grounding in high school football, the 5-yard penalty is enforced from the spot of the foul, plus loss of down. So in this case, it would be 3rd-and-(about)17.

Clock starting is another issue, and in this case I'd probably let it start on the snap.

Why?

Because it's legal for the QB to "spike" the ball after a hand-to-hand snap, even though it's done to conserve time. The offense gives up a down, and in return, the clock starts on the next snap.

The offense has already been heavily penalized for their error, and even though you could argue that they "conserved time illegally", I reserve that judgment for times when they do such things as intentionally snap before the ready-for-play.

LABUB · October 2nd, 2009, 05:22 PM

Great incite Jref. I'm torn both ways. And could see where either team might try to argue, but I reserve the right to do what I think is right.