With midterm elections looming, former war cheerleader/GOP Rep. gets real about Iraq - Page 2

blackumbrella · July 21st, 2006, 12:17 PM

	Quote:	BamaGoose
	I take it you don't like President Bush that much, . Seriously, I know I don't come over much but how would you handle this whole war of terror? I know I just opened pandora's box because you will say what did Iraq have to do with all this? The United States could basically just sit still and just twiddle our thumbs and never bother anyone in the world again and those ragheads would still be out to kill Americans and Israelies. How would you as Vice President to John Kerry or Al Gore recommend we do in response to all this hatred toward the US and Israel?

well, if our biggest concern is them killing americans, how about bringing the americnas back to america, instead of putting them in the terrorists' backyard? and then instead of spending tons of money to keep americans in the terrorists' backyard, use it to keep the terrorists out of ours. of course, that's the simple version. but i think a good point to identify the discrepancy between pro and con views on the matter, is that cons tend to see our presence in the me as diminishing the number of terrorists, whereas pros see our occupation as creating new terrorists. likewise, cons often see the post911absence of attacks on our soil as resulting from our military campaigns, whereas pros see it as resulting from corrections in homeland sec etc. so, really, the answer to your question is everybit as simple as my first two sentences, unless of course you're a conservative, in which case, you have no answer at all, like yourself, and like the president.

Bamaro · July 21st, 2006, 12:45 PM

	Quote:	NYBamaFan
	BTW, why do you hate America? WE started a civil war in Iraq? That disgusts me...

Please step back from the kool aid with this "why do you hate America" crap. We created the situation that allowed this civil war to start. If you dont want to call it a civil war, fine. But usually when you have one segment of the population killing another segment for control of the country, its a civil war.

NYBamaFan · July 22nd, 2006, 09:34 AM

	Quote:	Bamaro
	Please step back from the kool aid with this "why do you hate America" crap. We created the situation that allowed this civil war to start. If you dont want to call it a civil war, fine. But usually when you have one segment of the population killing another segment for control of the country, its a civil war.

Okay, so you think that we are responsible because we created the void? So, are we also responsible for the current government in Iran because we removed the Shah? Are we also responsible for the current economic conditions in Zimbabwe because we helped them move to democracy and they picked a racist leader?

If you use this way of thinking, why have we ever removed a violent dictator from power in any country? After all, the person that fills the void could be even worse. To avoid "unintended consequences", we should just bury our heads in the sand and hope that these despots never cause us direct harm? Is that your solution?

We have helped far more than we have hurt. The US and UK have helped sponsor democracy across the globe, and where it has been implemented, the citizens are far better off, and the region is far more stable. So, do we stop doing what we know to be right and just because it doesn't always work out the way that we had hoped? And are we wrong for trying to help others, even when they want our help?

Remember this - the Iraqi people wanted Saddam gone and were very happy that we helped. They don't like what is happening now, but they wanted Saddam gone even more than we did.

So, is it our fault that despots have tried to hijack that country to forward their aims? Are we really to blame?

I don't think so, and I find it hard to believe that anyone would...

One last question - Do you think that we are responsible for the violence between Israel and her neighbors? After all, we were the key country that helped establish Israel as a nation. Everything that has followed can be tracked back to that event...

Bamaro · July 23rd, 2006, 11:29 AM

NBF, There are sometimes unintended negative consequecces from otherwise benovolent actions. So while removing Saddam was a good thing, the civil war or whatever you want to call it, is a result of our actions. No, we didn't start it on purpose but yes, we started it as a result of our actions.

NYBamaFan · July 24th, 2006, 02:35 PM

	Quote:	Bamaro
	NBF, There are sometimes unintended negative consequecces from otherwise benovolent actions. So while removing Saddam was a good thing, the civil war or whatever you want to call it, is a result of our actions. No, we didn't start it on purpose but yes, we started it as a result of our actions.

No - it happened as a result of the terrorist's actions.

Think about it. Yes, we created the void - but it took murderous scum to try what they have to create the current condition in Iraq. Why blame those that created the void instead of the murderers? Without the murderers, the Iraqi people would be well along in their recovery from Saddam's regime...

Chukker Veteran · July 25th, 2006, 04:05 PM

	Quote:	NYBamaFan
	No - it happened as a result of the terrorist's actions. Think about it. Yes, we created the void - but it took murderous scum to try what they have to create the current condition in Iraq. Why blame those that created the void instead of the murderers? Without the murderers, the Iraqi people would be well along in their recovery from Saddam's regime...

And without gravity, we'd all be floating free. (Which is every bit as feasable as a happy Iraq, given the longstanding hate and violence practiced between the different factions.)

Why blame those that created the void? Because they ignored the possibility that what we are seeing now would be the result of attacking Iraq.

What numbskull would expect the different factions in Iraq to get along splendidly after the government fell? Our numbskulls, evidently.

NYBamaFan · July 25th, 2006, 05:41 PM

	Quote:	Chukker Veteran
	And without gravity, we'd all be floating free. (Which is every bit as feasable as a happy Iraq, given the longstanding hate and violence practiced between the different factions.) Why blame those that created the void? Because they ignored the possibility that what we are seeing now would be the result of attacking Iraq. What numbskull would expect the different factions in Iraq to get along splendidly after the government fell? Our numbskulls, evidently.

Without outside influence, they might very well have found a way to work it out. They still might - but only when the terrorists are killed.

There are only a few things that I despise, and this attitide is one. Too many people refuse to blame terrorists for terrorism. They prefer to find fault in those being attacked...

Chukker Veteran · July 28th, 2006, 08:25 AM

	Quote:	NYBamaFan
	Without outside influence, they might very well have found a way to work it out. They still might - but only when the terrorists are killed. There are only a few things that I despise, and this attitide is one. Too many people refuse to blame terrorists for terrorism. They prefer to find fault in those being attacked...

"Without outside influence." What an idea. Totally divorced from reality. We toppled the government, some might call that outside influence. But we are supposed to be the only country with an interest in shaping Iraq?

And we are blindsided when other "outside" factions assert influence?

To be led into war by such a blundering bunch that couldn't see past pulling saddam's statue over is what's worthy of being despised.