USSC Hears Employment Test (Discrimination) Case Today

[Tide1986]

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New Haven's Racial Test - WSJ.com

Sigh...it's not surprising to me that those who studied the most did the best on the test. When did "1+1=2" become a racially biased question or fact (sarcasm intended)? Sadly enough, merit no longer includes knowledge and hard work.
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[jthomas666]

That will be an interesting decision to read.

My guess is that the lower court ruling will stand, but that doesn't change the fact that the New Haven leaders are idiots. There's a reason for promotions tests in police and fire departments--lives are at stake.

[Tidewater]

	Quote:	Tide1986
	New Haven's Racial Test - WSJ.com Sigh...it's not surprising to me that those who studied the most did the best on the test. When did "1+1=2" become a racially biased question or fact (sarcasm intended)? Sadly enough, merit no longer includes knowledge and hard work. Posted via Mobile Device

This may ride on the issue of where the burden of proof lies: with the test givers to prove the test was truly open to all, or to the test takers to prove that the impact will be disproportionate.

[Boclive]

This looks like a "no-brainer" to me.

[Bamabuzzard]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30346519//

	Quote:
	There are long-standing divisions over the concept of hardworking, qualified whites being "victimized" by laws or practices designed to help minorities overcome America's history of racism. What's different today is that the landscape has shifted in many ways, big and small. The biggest is the election of President Barack Obama, and the support he received from millions of white voters. "It is not white racism that plays the deciding role in the success of minorities any more," says Edward Blum, a visiting scholar at the American Enterprise Institute who believes that race should not be considered in employment decisions. "That was the case in the '60s and '70s and maybe even part of the '80s," he says. "But it is no longer the case in the 21st century that because you are black you are being held back from achieving what your parents and your ambitions will allow you to achieve. I think that has been crystallized with the election of President Obama."

[RamJamHam]

Speaking of lives being at stake, do most of you realize that Judge Myron Thompson, a federal district court judge in Montgomery, enjoined the University of Alabama School of Education (and others) from using a minimum ACT score as a criteria for admission because minority students had a hard time achieving the minimum?

Read that again: the folks who are asking for entry into a program that would eventually allow them to teach our children are not required to meet a minimum standard on the ACT to gain such entry. If memory serves, I think the score required was either a 16 or an 18, somewhere in that neighborhood, so it's not like you had to score 32 to get in. Pair this with tenure and you can begin to see why we have such problems in public education. Given that free public education has generally been the ticket out for the disadvantaged, is it any wonder that we have some of the seemingly intractable problems that we have today?

Before you start jumping on me, my wife is a very good teacher who would have qualified under the old standard and who, quite frankly, is hindered much more than helped by tenure as it currently exists.

[Bamabuzzard]

What's even more embarrassing to me (from the African American standpoint) is that this society doesn't think enough of you that you can even be held to the same testing standards as the rest of the applicants. How uncomfortable would it be if they go ahead and promote several of the black applicants that didn't score high enough to actually get promoted and they were now over someone that scored higher than they did? Why would you want to be held to a lower testing standard and then expect to be respected and be viewed as "just as qualified"? They (blacks) want to prove that they are "just as smart" and "just as qualified" yet push to be held to lower standards. What makes it even more embarrassing is it wasn't all whites that passed, there were two Hispanics that made high enough to get promoted as well. So it's not a case where ONLY whites were able to meet the standard.

There's no way my conscious would let me do it. There's no way I could lead a group of men knowing (and them also knowing) that I was held to a lower standard than the guys that made the grade and DIDN'T get promoted. The team is doomed from the get go.

[RamJamHam]

Bamabuzzard, I've often wondered if the folks who "benefit" from things such as this feel as embarrassed as I would feel, or if they are really able to convince themselves that they are in fact more entitled to the position (or whatever) than the person who, as in this case, did everything they were asked to do, qualified, and then saw their rightful reward jerked away from them. Not to mention whether those same folks wonder why no one seems to respect them on the job.

I am sure that some of the firefighters who did not pass the test could do the job just as well or perhaps even better than those who did. However, the ones that did play by the rules, which were then changed in the middle of the game when the result just didn't come out right, deserve to be rewarded for doing what they were supposed to do.

[Bamabuzzard]

	Quote:	RamJamHam
	Bamabuzzard, I've often wondered if the folks who "benefit" from things such as this feel as embarrassed as I would feel, or if they are really able to convince themselves that they are in fact more entitled to the position (or whatever) than the person who, as in this case, did everything they were asked to do, qualified, and then saw their rightful reward jerked away from them. Not to mention whether those same folks wonder why no one seems to respect them on the job. I am sure that some of the firefighters who did not pass the test could do the job just as well or perhaps even better than those who did. However, the ones that did play by the rules, which were then changed in the middle of the game when the result just didn't come out right, deserve to be rewarded for doing what they were supposed to do.

I just don't follow the logic. How can anyone (be it black, white, Hispanic, Asian etc.) expect to get any sort of respect in situations where you are being held to lower standards than your competition? The black community seems to be wanting to be respected and thought of as being "just as qualified" as the next person. How can they expect to get that in these types of systems? Which many of these same type systems exists throughout this country for them. But when this is done the respect they are wanting isn't earned. And there's no way you're going to convince people to all of sudden start respecting people that are held to lower standards in job competition so they can be hired ahead of the ones that had to take the normal test. It just ain't gonna happen.