There's been a shooting on Fort Hood - Page 8

bamasoldier71 · November 6th, 2009, 07:32 PM

	Quote:	NYBamaFan
	Explaining it again won't help...

I won't be an apologist for them...

Tidewater · November 6th, 2009, 08:11 PM

	Quote:	SavannahDare
	There is nothing that we know now to point to this being an act of terrorism.

Good heavens. What does the man have to do for this to be considered an act of terrorism? The muslim gunman yelled "Allahu akbar!" and unloaded his pistol into a crowd a soldiers about to deploy to CENTCOM AOR.
The normal (non-terrorist) reaction to fear of or anger at deploying to Iraq or Afghanistan is to go AWOL and high-tail it to Canada, not gun down 43 people.
How exactly does one define terrorism?

bamasoldier71 · November 6th, 2009, 08:29 PM

Fort Hood suspect said his goodbyes before rampage - Yahoo! News

	Quote:
	Hasan appeared less forgiving to Dr. Val Finnell when they were classmates in a 2007-08 master's public health program at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md. He said that at a class presentation by public health students, at which topics like dry cleaning chemicals and house mold were discussed, Hasan talked about U.S. military actions as a war on Islam. Hasan made clear he was a "vociferous opponent" of U.S. wars in Muslim countries, Finnell said.

Obviously he was crazy. His religion had nothing to do with it.

NYBamaFan · November 6th, 2009, 08:40 PM

	Quote:	bamasoldier71
	I won't be an apologist for them...

No, instead you will be an apologist for him. This is like the people who claim that society or insanity are to blame for their actions, but you substitute Islam. Islam didn't do this or cause this, an evil man did...

NYBamaFan · November 6th, 2009, 08:42 PM

	Quote:	Tidewater
	Good heavens. What does the man have to do for this to be considered an act of terrorism? ...

It is clearly an independant act of terrorism (assuming that terrorism isn't too narrowly defined). Whether or not others were involved is still to be determined...

crimson fan man · November 6th, 2009, 09:20 PM

	Quote:	RedElephant92
	You don't get the virgins unless you kill a few infidels.

I like mine with a little experience.

Tidewater · November 6th, 2009, 09:36 PM

	Quote:	NYBamaFan
	It is clearly an independant act of terrorism (assuming that terrorism isn't too narrowly defined). Whether or not others were involved is still to be determined...

Okay. An act of terrorism does not have to be a group activity to be terrorism.

KrAzY3 · November 6th, 2009, 10:14 PM

	Quote:	NYBamaFan
	I don't understand the desire by some Americans to vilify Islam and its followers. I do not see Islam as a "peaceful" religion, but I hold individuals responsible for their actions. Unless this nut was instructed to do this by his religious leaders, this cannot be laid at the feet of Islam - and even then he is most to blame.

Individual responsibility is paramount, much like the Columbine kids, the acts were by individuals and they ultimately hold the responsibility.

Having said that, does anyone notice that two groups often show up in these senseless killing? Nazis and Muslims... think it through. Washington Sniper, Fort Hood, World Trade Center ... Columbine, Fort Carson, Oklahoma City.

It is the seed of hate that is relevant here. You have violent madmen, but you also have a ideology that appeals to them. Did the Nazi or Muslim ideology make them do it? No... However, the fact that it appealed so strongly to them and might provide justification for them is telling.

	Quote:	DiamondDust
	Just curious... What do the names Timothy McVeigh, Eric Robert Rudolph, Terry Nichols, Ted Kaczynski, Dylan Harris, and Eric Klebod tell you?

That people who hate Jews are much more likely to go out and randomly kill others?

It's On A Slab · November 6th, 2009, 11:06 PM

	Quote:	KrAzY3
	Individual responsibility is paramount, much like the Columbine kids, the acts were by individuals and they ultimately hold the responsibility. Having said that, does anyone notice that two groups often show up in these senseless killing? Nazis and Muslims... think it through. Washington Sniper, Fort Hood, World Trade Center ... Columbine, Fort Carson, Oklahoma City. It is the seed of hate that is relevant here. You have violent madmen, but you also have a ideology that appeals to them. Did the Nazi or Muslim ideology make them do it? No... However, the fact that it appealed so strongly to them and might provide justification for them is telling. That people who hate Jews are much more likely to go out and randomly kill others?

Good points.

You can take any creed or religion and bastardize it enough to turn into something evil. For example, do we blame Christianity for the Aryan Nations' take on the religion(Christian Identity), or the crimes done by the Klan in the name of their own wacky faith? Do we blame Christianity for Warren Jeffs and the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?

Do we blame 1.5 billion people for the acts of crazy people? Islamic terrorists do not reflect your average law-abiding Muslim.

CrimsonNan · November 6th, 2009, 11:37 PM

Hasan was quoted as saying that he didn't want to go to Iraq or Afghanistan because he didn't want to kill Muslims. Duh - as a psychiatrist, would he have been killing ANYBODY?

Someone on either radio or Tv today made a good point. During WWII Christians (Americans, British, other countries who are Christian) killed Germans, who are Christians, and Italians, who are also Christians, so that excuse doesn't carry water.

TRUTIDE · November 6th, 2009, 11:38 PM

	Quote:	It's On A Slab
	Good points. You can take any creed or religion and bastardize it enough to turn into something evil. For example, do we blame Christianity for the Aryan Nations' take on the religion(Christian Identity), or the crimes done by the Klan in the name of their own wacky faith? Do we blame Christianity for Warren Jeffs and the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? Do we blame 1.5 billion people for the acts of crazy people? Islamic terrorists do not reflect your average law-abiding Muslim.

I really do not think it is a good comparison between Christianity and Islam even though many would like to make it. In any of the examples you use above, it was Christains that took a stand against them and eventually brought them down. It was a Christian nation that brought down Hitler, It was a Christian nation that disavowed and prosecuted groups like the Klan.

While I do believe that the Muslim faith in this country is a whole lot more peacefull than in other countries, There are still many cells in this country that do teach in the old ways which are much more common in the Middle East. It is what it is. The Middle East is filled with hatred against against the Jews and even Christians. Some would argue that the Koran and other of Mohammad's teachings are consumed with the destruction of the Jewish people.

Have any leaders of Muslim nations come out strongly against this happening or any other? Were the Muslim people around the world that upset over what their comrads did on 911 or were they literally prasing the attackers and actually dancing in the streets? Are they mounting offensives against their neighboring countries that outwardly spew such hate or do they harbor the very terrorist that we seek out?

CrimsonDonald · November 6th, 2009, 11:38 PM

Regardless of the Major`s religious beliefs, or whether he was a terrorist or just a maniac. Our enemy, the radical Muslims whom we are fighting terror, are praising this man as a martyr. So, whether this was a terrorist act or not, this will be seen as a victory in the terrorist teachings.

Bama Reb · November 7th, 2009, 08:37 AM

	Quote:	NYBamaFan
	No, instead you will be an apologist for him. This is like the people who claim that society or insanity are to blame for their actions, but you substitute Islam. Islam didn't do this or cause this, an evil man did...

Sorry, but I beg to differ on this. Islam may not have DONE it, but it's influence certainly CAUSED it.
Let's take religion out of the equation for a minute.

Take for instance any community, anywhere in the world. So one day a young child picks up a brick and throws it at another neighboring child, severely injuring or even killing him or her. They hadn't done that before. In fact, they played with this child almost every day. But they listened to their parents who constantly railed about how much they hated the parents of this other child. So by constantly hearing the words of hatred, it eventually wears off onto the child and the child picks up the brick and throws it simply because they think that's what their parent would want them to do.
So did the parent DO the act? NO. Did the parent CAUSE the act? By the influence of their own actions and words, YES.
Does that make the child who threw the brick evil? No, because outside of the influence of their hate-filled parents, this would never have happened.

While Islam as a whole may essentially be a religion much like any other, there are certain factions that practice their "religion" through hatred, and practice their hatred through violence upon other truly peaceful and innocent peoples throughout the world. You would think that the Islam community would get together to rid themselves of their violent counterparts. The truth though is that the very religion that they proclaim to be peaceful also prevents them from taking appropriate actions. In Islam, it is far better to assist another Muslim, regardless of their actions, than to aid someone outside Islam in ridding their community of that same violent faction.