Was Stupak amendment merely an enabler for Pelosicare?

TRUTIDE · November 8th, 2009, 02:54 PM

Were the pubs duped into unanimously voting for this at the cost of final approval of a poisoned Healthcare bill? Will the far right's right to life groups be ultimately responsible for this bills final passage? Did the pubs know this was the way it would play out all along.

I don't know. I am against abortion and all but at what cost to this country economically. We are in pretty dire times right now. Republicans were in a no win situation where if they do not support the Stupak amendment, they stop passage of this bill in the house but they become targets of far right and some religious groups for not supportting an anti abortion amendment. If they support the amendment, they keep the pro life base happy but they effectively enable the final passage of a bill that goes against every conservative principle this country was founded on.

Personally, I would have had more respect for them if they had fought the system, not supported the amendment and weighed out the long term effects final passage would have had on this country. It may have been political suicide for some of them but they would have been standing on strong conservative principles.

I really do not see such an amendment withstanding democratic concilitation efforts at all. Pelosi and Reid have shown the depths they will sink to and will strip this amendment of any meanigfull legislation before any bill makes it to the POTUS. Planned parenthood and Moveon have shown the influence they have on every bill in this congress and this one will be no different.

Is this really a right to life victory or just an empty stance on an issue that will ultimately have devastating cost to this country?

It will be interesting to see the angle radio talk shows will take on this. I can't wait to hear what Neal Bortz has to say about it.

NYBamaFan · November 8th, 2009, 03:04 PM

It got them 1 GOP vote, and this passed by 2 votes. It was moderate Democrats that pushed that through, not the GOP. The question, would those moderate Democrats have voted for this w/o this amendment...

TRUTIDE · November 8th, 2009, 03:58 PM

	Quote:	NYBamaFan
	It got them 1 GOP vote, and this passed by 2 votes. It was moderate Democrats that pushed that through, not the GOP. The question, would those moderate Democrats have voted for this w/o this amendment...

It was the GOP that passed the Stupak amendment. Without such an amendment, Pelosi would have surely been at least 10 votes shy on the final bill.

NYBamaFan · November 8th, 2009, 04:34 PM

	Quote:	TRUTIDE
	It was the GOP that passed the Stupak amendment. Without such an amendment, Pelosi would have surely been at least* 10 votes shy on the final bill.*

If so, then the GOP has sold out. They have voted for this bill, even without voting for it. They can no longer claim that they did everything that they could to stop it.

Thanks for the clarification. I thought it was driven by democrat moderates...

TRUTIDE · November 10th, 2009, 12:09 PM

	Quote:	NYBamaFan
	If so, then the GOP has sold out. They have voted for this bill, even without voting for it. They can no longer claim that they did everything that they could to stop it. Thanks for the clarification. I thought it was driven by democrat moderates...

I do not disagree that the GOP sold out. It was obvious that it was a bait and switch all the way. The GOP could not go against their pro life base and basically put the abortion issue above the bigger, elephant in the room (Healthcare issue). IMO this was a big mistake that many that are opposed to this bill will come to regret.

On the flipside...many on the left voted for this bill even though it does little toward covering all Americans and will force more people to pay more for private insurance. Dennis Kucinich voted "NO" on the bill for this very reason.

Link

	Quote:
	"But instead of working toward the elimination of for-profit insurance, H.R. 3962 would put the government in the role of accelerating the privatization of health care. In H.R. 3962, the government is requiring at least 21 million Americans to buy private health insurance from the very industry that causes costs to be so high, which will result in at least $70 billion in new annual revenue, much of which is coming from taxpayers. This inevitably will lead to even more costs, more subsidies, and higher profits for insurance companies - a bailout under a blue cross." "By incurring only a new requirement to cover pre-existing conditions, a weakened public option, and a few other important but limited concessions, the health insurance companies are getting quite a deal."

Kucinich seems to share many of your concerns in the healthcare debate, yet; he does not see this bill as addressing any of these concerns. He remarked last night that the President was succumbing to the pressure from insurance companies and that this bill ended up enpowered the insurance companies more.

Although I do not agree with his overall view on universal healthcare, I do agree that this bill does little to address the current problems in the system and applaud for standing up for his beliefs

cbi1972 · November 10th, 2009, 01:51 PM

This is the worst of both worlds.

cbi1972 · November 10th, 2009, 02:00 PM

	Quote:	TRUTIDE
	Is this really a right to life victory or just an empty stance on an issue that will ultimately have devastating cost to this country?

It's a total sellout that will ultimately have devastating cost to this country.

TRUTIDE · November 10th, 2009, 02:10 PM

	Quote:	cbi1972
	It's a total sellout that will ultimately have devastating cost to this country.

I tend to agree.

Not a big fan of Kucinich but his admission that this bill does nothing it sets out to do and actually will make a bad situation worse is very telling in the least. I am pro life but cannot see the justification of the GOP here. Their compromise just helped to pass this toxic bill in the end.