Old Timers Disease (really musings about the offense)

TexasBammer

All-SEC
Feb 8, 2005
1,613
0
55
Hotlanta, Ga
OK, here's the deal.

I should preface this with, I have always been a run first, and run alot kinda guy.

I need to know if it's just me, or what.

This new offense that we have can be explosive. Probably more explosive than anything I've seen in a long time from Bama, however, it also seems to be very inconsistent in sustaining drives. Now, I may be suffering from "old timer disease" here, but it seems like we always seemed to rarely go 3 and out so many times. Excluding the DuBosian period, which was an abberation.

I guess to sum it up, back in the early 90s, I seem to remember that on scoring drives, we usually ran 8-18 plays, or we would have our share of 3 and outs.

Now, it seems that we either go 3 and out, or 5-10 play scoring drives, but rarely any long drives. Heck, in the Southern Miss game, our longest drives were 11 plays(http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=252530333) and we would have never had them, if it wouldn't have been for USM penalties.

Here's my future big worry. I think Brodie Croyle is by far the most talented QB we have had in over 20 years. He is very accurate and sharp on 90% of his passes.....and here lies the rub. If we struggle this much with Brodie at QB in this offense, what will happen when we get a "normal" QB again.... Like JPW (Is is just me, worrying that the battle for second string was close between JPW and MG?) In the old days, our QB's were average at best, but we could win in those schemes.

It seems like our offensive system doesn't seem to be condusive to balance. We are either throwing it around and moving down the field. Running a balanced offense, and going 3 and out, or....after the other guys are worn down... run-only.

Worst part is, this could very well be my being uncomfortable with so much passing... I understand this, and am trying to get better. Mike Price's offense would have probably ended me.. :)

What do you guys think?


A. You hit the nail on the head...


B. This is not a fair argument because of all the probation.... In the early 90s, we had much better talent....Here's why it's not working...


C. You have major "old timers disease". The year is young, and it will just take some time to get everyone on the same page...


D. "Old Timers disease" is an understatement. You are a crack smoking, franchione lover.. Go soak your head. Here's what you're missing...


E. Patience is a virtue... and you sir, are an idiot... because...
 

UAB-CT

All-SEC
Mar 4, 2005
1,360
0
55
49
Northport, AL
I think most of us went into this season realizing the O-line was young and a real question mark. I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet on them, but the facts are they are young and inexperienced. Having said that however, I like you, am used to an Alabama team that no matter what the odds, could figure out some way to run the football.

I still don't have a clear understanding as to what kind of team we have this year. We were so worried about being a one dimensional football team that I think alot of focus was turned to our passing game and away from a fundalmentaly sound running attack. In essences we have become a one dimensional team in a totally different direction - but a dimensional team none the less.

Take this into consideration, if you were the head coach and your star QB the last 2 seasons was injuried but your running game was well established what would you concentrate on during the off season? Running the football or Protecting the QB. Now, I realize that the opinions would differ greatly on this subject but the fact is Coach Shula wants to throw the football, I just question if some of the focus wasn't lost in our running game.

You know I don't think I answered your question at all but just my 2 cents.
 
Last edited:

TRUTIDE

All-SEC
Oct 14, 1999
1,502
0
0
Spanish Fort, AL
I would kindly go with "B"...

I think that we have to evolve into this type of offense and we have been doing that for the last couple of years. I too like the "running, defense, championship" philosophy but I think that Brodie would be a wasted talent in this type of offense.

I think that Shula has been moving us more and more toward a legitimate passing game for the past few years through recruiting and game plan. Of coarse we have been limited by probation and injuries but if we can stay healthy with a good defense we may hit pay dirt before Shula is run out of Ttown.

If we are able to make such a transformation to a more versatile passing team, then the system will take care of itself. A JPW could more easily step into a passing type offense that already has recievers and an OL that are on pace. The key here though is to have a good defense that can account for the three and outs that will be associated with any type of passing game.

I think Shula is moving us more toward a pro type offense. Instead of rushing for over 200 and passing for under 200, our ideal game will net 300 yds passing and 100 yds rushing. We will run off the pass instead of passing off the run.
 

TommyMac

Hall of Fame
Apr 24, 2001
14,040
33
0
83
Mobile, Alabama
I certainly don't pretend to be an expert, but it seems to me that we're never going to have an offense we can depend on until we show more diversity. By and large, we ignore the middle of the field in the passing game and primarily run it up the gut in our running game. You can bet that rival DC's have noticed it too. We just seem to be too dang predictable. That was the rap on Coach Shula as Tampa Bay's OC. I always thought it was Tony Dungy's fault and I came pretty close to getting into a few fights in bars defending CMS, but now, I'm wondering.
 

Tide&True

All-American
Sep 24, 2004
4,618
2,188
182
Murfreesboro, TN
I think our concerns about the running game are justified. I think until the OL matures we just aren't going to be able to run it down people's throats like we are use to doing. In the meantime maybe we should run the ball outside the tackles more.
 

tidefan23

All-SEC
Dec 11, 2004
1,343
0
0
Hoover, AL
TexasBammer said:
I think Brodie Croyle is by far the most talented QB we have had in over 20 years. He is very accurate and sharp on 90% of his passes
BC can throw the ball really far and fairly accurately but that doesn't equate to the most talented QB in the last 20 years.
 

7Tech

Scout Team
Aug 2, 2005
194
0
0
52
I think our running game

problems can be summed up like this
Chris Capps - second carrer start
Antoine Caldwell - second carrer start
JB Closner - second carrer start
Mark Sanders / Marlon Davis-second/first carrer start
Kyle Tatum-second carrer start

It is harder to learn to run block than pass block. Our Offense all year is going to be to pass to set up the run, wear them down and run the ball in the second half. the first half will be throw deep early to back the DB's off
 

CapitalTider

All-American
Jun 8, 2004
2,798
0
0
Vienna, VA
TexasBammer said:
If we struggle this much with Brodie at QB in this offense, what will happen when we get a "normal" QB again.... Like JPW (Is is just me, worrying that the battle for second string was close between JPW and MG?) In the old days, our QB's were average at best, but we could win in those schemes.
When talking about a close race for second string between JPW and MG bear in mind that JPW was essentially a true freshman who beat out or was neck and neck with a guy who has been in the system for at least one full year and has a couple of years of experience and maturity. To me that shows that JPW has a lot of talent and potential. How many true freshmen do you see starting at QB in the SEC? Ainge did it some but is in danger of losing his job to a more experienced guy.

Depending on what "old days" you are referring to, I don't think Bart Starr, Joe Namath, Scott Hunter, Ken Stabler or Jeff Rutledge (and any I unintentionally forgot) were average at best. Despite all the gloriful memories of "three yards and a cloud of dust" it is my understanding that in the 60s Coach Bryant had us throwing the ball quite a bit.

Personally I don't think that the run first, run all the time offense can be successful in today's football. At ATM Fraud is passing the ball an awful lot, in conjunction with option type plays and running plays. Nebraska the quintessential running team of the 90s has finally moved away from it. To recruit good athletes at the QB and WR positions we are going to have to throw the ball more. Personally I wouldn't want us to go as extreme as I believe Price's offense would have been, but I believe you have to have balance. There may be issues with the OL, their run blocking does not seem to be up to par right now. Hopefully it will improve. There was a comment made during an NFL game yesterday talking about the defense. The commentator mentioned that the defense was designed to not give up a big play and force the opponent to drive the length of the field in small chunks. With this strategy the chances are good that at some point the offense will get forced into a long position (tackle for loss or sack) and be unable to convert. A pro offense must counter this by being able to complete a "big play." I believe that is what our offense is designed for. The college game tends to follow the pro-game eventually. This may result in more three and outs for our offense and shorter drives in general, putting our defense on the field more. I've noticed that Kines rotates lots of guys, especially on the DL, throughout the game. That is probably his solution to that aspect.
 

crimsonbleeder

All-American
Dec 1, 2002
2,703
3
0
Birmingham, AL
TRUTIDE said:
I think Shula is moving us more toward a pro type offense. Instead of rushing for over 200 and passing for under 200, our ideal game will net 300 yds passing and 100 yds rushing. We will run off the pass instead of passing off the run.
This is EXACTLY what CMS is doing, and it is why we will be getting star recruits in the future that are 4 and 5 star studs capable of playing (later) in the NFL. Weis is doing the same thing at ND, Carroll has already set it up in USC, and I think they're doing alright. If it weren't for probation, we'd have done much better with it the last few years.

Part of the lack of sustain is due to BC wanting to hit the home run every time he takes a snap. You can just sense it, and he admitted as such after the MTSU game. There are LOTS of shorter, higher efficiency routes that appeared to be open in both of the last two games that would've sustained drives better, but one of three things happened there: a) BC went waaay deep, b) the receiver dropped the ball (this is getting tiring, although TP certainly made up for his first game drops, now EK, KB, KD, LM, and NW have got some makeup work to do in that department), c) BC got pressured so much or got an out of control snap that made the play a scramble.

This offense is set up to be very efficient, and will work quite well. I think it will sustain drives, take time off the clock, yet still have the "razzle dazzle" at times that we all wanna see from time to time....
 

rolltide87

3rd Team
Oct 8, 2003
217
4
0
Hoover, AL, USA
I was at the game Saturday and thought the same thing about the O-line and running the ball. It seemed like we couldn't clear out anyone. However, I watched the replay on CSS yesterday and mellowed my opinion somewhat (although I am certainly not an expert analyst). USM was cheating up on the run and relying on single coverage to defend the pass. Prior to the game I remember reading that USM was determined not to allow us to run it down their throats again. This is part of the reason we had such a big passing night. Even after we hit some big plays, USM was still playing run first. On most plays, their safeties were within 8 yards of the LOS. While I admit we had a lot of mistakes on the O-line, we did seem to be able to create space on many of the plays. I think as the season progresses the O-line will get better and eliminate some of the mistakes. As the passing game continues to hit big plays, the other teams will have to adjust their defensive strategy to stop the pass which should open up the run more. Just my opinion, FWIW.
 

Tide64

All-SEC
Sep 26, 2004
1,002
0
0
I want to see what they can do this week when they have some film of the defense that they will face. The past two games, they had problems on the first half and were much better after adjusting at half-time. In both games, they were facing a new defensive coordinator. So, my question is, will they be better at the start when they know what they will face? We should learn alot about this team this week.
 

gator

1st Team
Aug 22, 2005
461
0
0
Birmingham, AL
Great thread. I started one not to long ago asking about how AL felt about the new style of offense but did not get much response. My view on this year is that AL needs to get the running game up to speed. It does not have to be dominating, just good enough to give BC some time and give the D more to think about.

As it stands now, I think SEC defenses will present more of a problem for BC. In this past game it seemd like every play that the AL receivers blew past the defenders as soon as they turned to look back at the QB. If I remember correctly, one of the announcers made a comment about the defenders looking back too early, before the receiver brought his hands up. Probably a combination of first game mistakes and the overall difference in speed and talent. Even the incredible behind the back catch should have been picked off or batted down, but the defender did not even attempt to look back. Not to take away from the catch at all which was remarkable. All that to say that you will need more of a running game to pull in the defense and give BC opportunities to make the big throws.

As others have mentioned, you have to use what you have. The line is young and you have a better QB than in recent years. Also, not meant to knock Darby and the others, but I think the RB talent is not at AL standards.

Another plus to being able to make quick strikes is that you can come back after getting down in games. Nothing like putting up a 60 second TD drive to bring instant silence to a hostile crowd on an away game.

-gator
 

bayoutider

Administrator Emeritus & Chef-in-Chief
Oct 13, 1999
29,712
27
0
Tidefans.com
gator said:
As others have mentioned, you have to use what you have. The line is young and you have a better QB than in recent years. Also, not meant to knock Darby and the others, but I think the RB talent is not at AL standards.

-gator
Darby broke 1000 yards rushing last season even though he was not the starter the first few games and was injured the last few. Coffee and Jimmy Johns are true freshmen, Jimmy Johns a converted QB. Aaron Johns is quick but small and Tim Castille spends more time at FB than RB. Darby will get his yards this year or die trying, he is that type of running back. I think Coffee will become a true threat as a SEC running back. Jimmy Johns will do whatever is asked of him.
 

TideBeliever

1st Team
Mar 26, 2003
533
0
0
Huntsville, AL USA
Read 7Tech's message above. Why do you expect our offensive line to be dominent when they are facing defensive lines that consist of redshirted juniors and seniors?

When our o-line is juniors and have quality backups with game experience, we will become a much more balanced team.

In the meantime, our qb/receiver combination is where our talent lies and should continue to be emphasized.

In addition, the injury bug continues...with both J Johns and Coffee questionable.

Of course last year, without a passing qb and with an experienced o-line, fans were complaining about the lack of a passing game.

This year, with a passing qb and without an experienced o-line, fans are complaining about the lack of a running game.

It is difficult to wait, but I see 07...when we have an experienced o-line, receivers, rb's and qb as when the Tide will be high again.

In the meantime, I will support the team through it ebb and flow.
 

Crimson Hawk

Hall of Fame
Dec 16, 2001
5,522
1
0
North Alabama
Agree with Gator, this is a great thread; lots of intelligent response. I'd like to toss this in the ring: I think our situation, as far as offense is concerned, is more a reactive one, than a deliberate one. In effect, I don't necessarily believe 'Air Bama" is what CMS has in mind. I believe he wants a balanced O as much as anyone on this board, but, is mentally flexible enough to adapt to what the D is giving. We certainly would (in my view) be running the ball more if our desperately YOUNG guys up front were further along, but to this point everyone has been stacking the line and daring us to beat them through the air......and we have obliged, to this point. Personally, I like the fact that CMS is adaptable, because there have been coaches, in the past, that would not have made those adjustments. JMHO.
 

7Tech

Scout Team
Aug 2, 2005
194
0
0
52
TideBeliever said:
When our o-line is juniors and have quality backups with game experience, we will become a much more balanced team.
.
can you imagine our line in two years if we land David Ross and Andre Smith pit him with Marlon Davis and and Antoine Caldwell on the line. that will be one impressive line.
 

Latest threads

TideFans.shop : 2024 Madness!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.