Tyson Thomas

Kam, do you really believe that Shawn Alexander and Big Sam weren't 90% of the reason that Bama won the SEC in '99?

It seems pretty obvious to me that they were and that they pretty much carried Bama.

Musso, I do understand recruiting strategy. I'm not the twit you take me for. My point is that some players are simply too good to pass up. Again, if this Thomas kid is as good as Shawn Alexander, you wouldn't take him?
 

MUSSO

BamaNation Citizen
Mar 9, 2001
74
0
0
Tallahassee, FL
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by TiderinVA:
Again, if this Thomas kid is as good as Shawn Alexander, you wouldn't take him?</font>
Uh, a resounding NO! Heck, give me a backfield of S. Alexander, Bobby Humphrey, and Johnny Musso without a passing threat, and I won't have anything.

Let me try to break it down for you as simply as possible. In case you haven't yet realized a passing threat is necessary to win against quality opposition. To have a decent passing threat you need a good QB (which we have), good offensive linemen, and good receivers. Not to mention a good defense is also required to win against good teams. Ok, to have all these things you need to recruit good players. To recruit good players you need to have scholarships to offer them. Ok this is where we are hurting, for as you know the NCAA has issued sanctions against us which include scholarship reductions. So you follow me so far?

Now with limited scholarships to offer talented players we must use great discretion in our selection. This includes choosing quality athletes, quality students, and being especially sensitive to our personel needs. By "needs" I mean areas where we have our thinnest depths. Ok, so I trust you are still with me.

After this season we will be hurting much more at WR than we will at RB while having a QB that is not suited for option football. Conversely, our QB is especially gifted at throwing the football. So what does this equal??????? That's right, you got it ... WE NEED WIDE RECEIVERS!

You say that you are not a twit, and I honestly believe you. However, you're not proving your intellectual adequacy surrounding this simple issue all too well.

------------------
If you're a cowboy and you're dragging a guy behind your horse, I bet it would really make you mad if you looked back and the guy was reading a magazine.
--Deep Thoughts by Jack Handy

[This message has been edited by MUSSO (edited September 29, 2002).]
 

BamaKam

BamaNation Citizen
Sep 1, 2002
55
0
0
Orlando, FL
Uhhh, what Musso Said! I agree that Shaun and Big Sam were huge for the '99 team. Of course, this coaching staff lives in a different galaxy than the previous regime. A premier running back, no matter how good, is not going to make a big difference on this Alabama team. Dubacle relied on a couple of key players to make he and his staff look like they were competent. Fran relies on his staff to form a team with many working parts.

If we had 25 scholly's to give, I would be all for signing the RB. We don't. We have 2 kids from the '02 class coming in which leaves us with 16 new kids to sign.

Once again, we have commits from 2 FOUR year RB's, one that may indeed be the next Shaun Alexander (Tim Castille).

That leaves us with 14 scholly's to give. We have needs (I'll say it again) at WR, DL, OL and Safety. With the 2 commits, that leaves us a RB stable next year of:

Beard, Williams, Hudson, Darby (another stud), Castille and Packer.

In the next 2 years we lose at WR:

Collins, AC (redshirt this year, senior nxt year), Fulgham, Fletcher, Luke, Babb, Greer

After next year, we will have the following at WR assuming no signees:

Marcus McKnight, Thurman Ward, Brandon Brooks (all 5'4", 160 lbs. of him), Tarry Givens and a bunch of walk ons. Does this concern you a bit?

So anyway, make your own assumptions.
 

ROLLER

Banned
Mar 3, 2002
481
4
0
Winnersville, AL, USA
Whatever, it's Fran's decision. Let's see what he decides. It's not like we can't use one or two of the runningbacks you guys mention at another postion like DB or WR. What if one of those guys don't qualify academically? Good players are good players if we can get Thomas, hell red-shirt Castille or Packer. It aint that hard.

------------------
"CRIMSON PANTS, WHITE STRIPES"
 
You know Musso, compared to your obviously superior intellect, it's pointless for me to even try to compete. I should probably consult with you on every facet of my existance. "What clothes would Musso think that I should wear today?" "Does Musso think I should have the veal or the chicken tonite for dinner?" "I wonder what mutual funds Musso thinks I should invest in?".

You could have your own advice column, Dear Musso and pass out your gems of wisdom since you have the superior intellect.

Whatever.
 

BamaKam

BamaNation Citizen
Sep 1, 2002
55
0
0
Orlando, FL
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by TiderinVA:
You know Musso, compared to your obviously superior intellect, it's pointless for me to even try to compete. I should probably consult with you on every facet of my existance. "What clothes would Musso think that I should wear today?" "Does Musso think I should have the veal or the chicken tonite for dinner?" "I wonder what mutual funds Musso thinks I should invest in?".

You could have your own advice column, Dear Musso and pass out your gems of wisdom since you have the superior intellect.

Whatever.
</font>
Sounds like someone that's run out of points to argue
 

The Tide

1st Team
Nov 14, 1999
993
13
0
Nashville, TN
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by TiderinVA:
You know Musso, compared to your obviously superior intellect, it's pointless for me to even try to compete. I should probably consult with you on every facet of my existance. "What clothes would Musso think that I should wear today?" "Does Musso think I should have the veal or the chicken tonite for dinner?" "I wonder what mutual funds Musso thinks I should invest in?".

You could have your own advice column, Dear Musso and pass out your gems of wisdom since you have the superior intellect.

Whatever.
</font>
lol


Look obviously Fran disagrees with Musso/BamaKam because or he wouldn't have offered this kid. We have offered 10 WRs. None have committed. Would you like to wait till signing day to fill 5 spots? What happened to if they don't want to play for Bama then screw them???

BTW, I wouldn't put all your stock in Castille yet. He has yet to get on campus, even complete his senior year, or compete in the SEC.

Ex. Jabari Davis was the #2 RB in the nation and he is just running over everyone....not!
 

MUSSO

BamaNation Citizen
Mar 9, 2001
74
0
0
Tallahassee, FL
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by The Tide:
Look obviously Fran disagrees with Musso/BamaKam because or he wouldn't have offered this kid. We have offered 10 WRs. None have committed.</font>
TheTide, take a stroll through this thread, and you'll understand that just because recruiting websites state that we have offered the kid a schollie doesn't necessarily mean that the offer isn't without conditions. we've probably got close to 5 times as many offers as available spots, and to think that it is "first come first serve" for every single prospect is foolish. granted, if all of our WR prospects start smoking crack and sign elsewhere and our DL prospects do the same, then Fran might very well consider signing a JUCO RB with 2 yrs. eligibility just to have a quality player.

BUT for this to occur our recruiting efforts would have to be highly unsuccessful, and no one sees this happening with such a deep in-state class this year. i seriously doubt that with so few remaining slots we won't be able to sign a mere 6-7 high school stars that can serve our present and future needs better than a 2 yr RB. but yes, he's been offered because you always offer more than you can sign, especially during sanctions. your offers are just appended with conditions. i don't know why you don't understand because it's really not that complicated.



[This message has been edited by MUSSO (edited October 02, 2002).]
 

The Tide

1st Team
Nov 14, 1999
993
13
0
Nashville, TN
Musso,

Of course offers are given out on certain conditions, but I doubt the JC RB was told "ok if we don't get any WRs or DTs or LBs or another OL then we will sign you."

I don't think it happens like that. I doubt the player would sign with a team like that.

Yes we need WRs and DTs I don't argue that one bit. This year and last year would have been great years to sign the full 25.

My point is, since we have offered around 10 WRs and none have committed, we can't afford to wait till signing day to see who wants to play for Alabama. I am sure Fran has other plans.

If he feels this JC RB can be another Ladanian Tomlison then so be it. He has already said it would be nice to have an "all around" back to hand off to 20-30 times a game. We don't have that right now.

Will Darby or Castille reach potential? I sure as heck hope so, but that is a lot to gamble on.

I hope we sign at least 2 WRs and 2 more DTs and then pick up a stud LB or safety. I think we are set at RB. In fact I am kind of concerned about FB. We have Luke RS, McClain coming and McLain playing as a True Fresh. That's a lot of FB for probation. Of course on the flip side all you have to look at is what happened this summer. I hope McLain goes back to LB.

I don't disagree with you Musso, but I do think Fran has a plan. If no receiver sign with us then he will make due with what he has.
 

MUSSO

BamaNation Citizen
Mar 9, 2001
74
0
0
Tallahassee, FL
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by The Tide:
.... Of course offers are given out on certain conditions, but I doubt the JC RB was told "ok if we don't get any WRs or DTs or LBs or another OL then we will sign you."

I don't think it happens like that. I doubt the player would sign with a team like that.


If he feels this JC RB can be another Ladanian Tomlison then so be it. He has already said it would be nice to have an "all around" back to hand off to 20-30 times a game. We don't have that right now.

Will Darby or Castille reach potential? I sure as heck hope so, but that is a lot to gamble on.

I hope we sign at least 2 WRs and 2 more DTs and then pick up a stud LB or safety. I think we are set at RB. In fact I am kind of concerned about FB. We have Luke RS, McClain coming and McLain playing as a True Fresh. That's a lot of FB for probation. Of course on the flip side all you have to look at is what happened this summer. I hope McLain goes back to LB.
</font>
>>> my guess is that Fran & Co. has told Tyson Thomas that we would sign him if serious injury occurs to Castille, McClain, and/or Packer during this their high school senior seasons. injury to RFR Luke and Darby might also be a contributing factor depending upon severity. but certainly you have to reason that if many of our top prospects bail on the Tide, then our pursuit for Thomas' signature will definitely be hastened.

>>> in response to the likelihood of Thomas committing to a team that gives conditions on a scholarship offer, well i disagree. first of all, any JUCO recruit who receives any attention whatsoever from a team on probation has to be flattered because of his limited eligibility. secondly, you can't tell me that a promising JUCO RB who knows that he has a limited amount of time in Div 1-A to display his skills isn't seriously searching for a team with a good OL. any smart JUCO RB is looking for the best opportunity for his skills and worth to be displayed in hope of accelerating his stock for a possible NFL future. it's no wonder that he would want to come to Bama who led the SEC in rushing last year and so far again this year. in fact, his two remaining years would be Smiley, Britt, and Mathis' two remaining years. so as you can see, there are many reasons why he or any other good JUCO RB would be willing to sign with Bama. besides, prospects are much more turned off to scholarship conditions when a school ISN'T on probabtion.

>>> shortly after Galloway's injury, Fran was quoted as saying that he felt Beard was another RB (besides Galloway) capable of handling 20-25 rushing attempts per game.

>>> fyi, gambling is always a part of recruiting and especially so during sanctions. you can't recruit betting that your signees are going to fail. in an ideal world we would have an unlimited number of players, but we don't.

>>> your last point to which i wish to reply is the issue of FB but is connected with the issue of RB depth. Fran has already said that he plans to keep Luke at TB, not FB. this means in 2004 we will still have [at the very least] Hudson (Sr), Darby (So), Luke (So), Castille (So or Fr), and Packer(So or Fr) at TB. That's plenty during probabtion, and that's not even considering any future RB recruits! Can you justify signing a 2-yr JUCO RB during sanctions with that kind of stable?? that means having both McLain and McClain at FB won't be excessive. but i must admit that i feel more comfortable with the Moose at MLB. besides, the use of FB hasn't been integral in our SEC leading rushing attack under Fran.

[This message has been edited by MUSSO (edited October 03, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by MUSSO (edited October 03, 2002).]
 

ROLLER

Banned
Mar 3, 2002
481
4
0
Winnersville, AL, USA
OK this will be short. Thomas is a running back and that is pretty evident. He won't convert to another position more than likely. Castille may play RB, but he can play safety, wr, or maybe even LB with his size. McLain will wind up at FB more than likely and so will Luke. Now that leaves us Darby, Packer, and Castille(maybe) at RB with the graduation of Beard, Williams, and Hudson after next season. Let's see the only experience maybe with Darby at that time. I'd say Tyson Thomas would make a nice addition to a young and unproven backfield.

Don't worry about WR with Brodie in town. Come on man if we can't recruit receivers after this season and next then Fran is awful at recruiting receivers. My point is we are not loaded at the RB position as some may think we are after next season. I think that safety and WR are the key spots to fill this recruiting season. But adding a top 5 RB is awesome for the one of the top running squads in America. But on the Wr side of recruiting I think Fran knows who we want and who is a strong lean. We still have Fulgham, Greer, AC, Givens(so), Fletcher, and Luke next season. Add McKnight(fr) and Ward(so), and possibly RS Freshman Robinson. We'll be alright.

------------------
"CRIMSON PANTS, WHITE STRIPES"
 

BamaKam

BamaNation Citizen
Sep 1, 2002
55
0
0
Orlando, FL
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ROLLER:
OK this will be short. Thomas is a running back and that is pretty evident. He won't convert to another position more than likely. Castille may play RB, but he can play safety, wr, or maybe even LB with his size.

Don't worry about WR with Brodie in town. Come on man if we can't recruit receivers after this season and next then Fran is awful at recruiting receivers. My point is we are not loaded at the RB position as some may think we are after next season. I think that safety and WR are the key spots to fill this recruiting season. But adding a top 5 RB is awesome for the one of the top running squads in America. But on the Wr side of recruiting I think Fran knows who we want and who is a strong lean. We still have Fulgham, Greer, AC, Givens(so), Fletcher, and Luke next season. Add McKnight(fr) and Ward(so), and possibly RS Freshman Robinson. We'll be alright.

</font>
Castille is a RB - Period. Who in the WORLD told you that Castille would be a S or LB? There is no way, no how, ever ever ever, that Tim Castille does not play RB at Bama. Most teams play 3 RB's tops barring injuries but as many as 7 WR's. The top 1 or 2 RB's get most of the carries but WR's are running up and down the field every play and need to be rotated more frequently.

Tyson Thomas has 2 years left. During his 2 years we will have:

Beard (1 year), Shaud (1 year), Hudson (2), Darby (2), Castille (2), Packer (2), Luke (2).

During those same 2 years, we will have the following WR's:

Fletcher (1), Fulgham (1), T. Luke (1), AC Carter (1), Greer (1), Ward (2),T. Givens (2), M. McKnight (2).

I don't know about you, but considering that teams play more receivers and less backs, we have a Big Time stud QB, and NONE Of our current crop of WR's are true difference makers, but to me that means that we need receivers.

Now, again, we are not saying that Tyson Thomas will NOT be at Alabama. We ARE saying that he will be signed by Bama ONLY if many other possible recruits do not fall our way.

Another thing, it is much easier to play RB as a younger player than it is to play WR. Sure there are blocking schemes and routes for backs, but if a back can tote the rock, he can play a good bit without a vast knowledge of the offense. However, WR is a different story. You don't see many impact freshman WR's. The reason is that it is much more difficult to learn the receiver position.

That is why it is CRITICAL for Bama to sign many recievers this year. As great as Jackson, Swain, etc, are, they will still not be polished SEC receivers their first year. So waiting until next year (after we lose all of our competent receivers) to recruit more WR's would be a huge mistake IMO...

And, I have to say this again. There is NO WAY that T. Castille does not play RB at Bama....NO WAY!
 

ROLLER

Banned
Mar 3, 2002
481
4
0
Winnersville, AL, USA
BamaKam congratulations on your hiring onto the Alabama staff. Listen Castille is an athlete. Tyson Thomas is an athlete and a proven runningback on some type college level. I'm basically saying who makes your best runningback and soon. You mean a healthy *** Castille couldn't play LB or S. The guy list at 5-11 or 6-0 at 220 lbs!! Luke is gonna be a FB, man. Bring in two young studs at receiver and pick up Thomas and Castille. Laron McLain is coming in at FB, but look at the depth we have there. If he converts early, you don't think Greg M. can't convert to TE or LB or even DE, ofcourse!!

All I'm saying is why not get the best players that can contribute early and effectively. The most of effective recruits will be the ones who can play early and match up with our needs.

If we are so big on Castille and he has played multiple positions in highschool which is his strength being multi-dimensional, well hell I don't know let's see where he best fits. His father was one hell of a defensive player though.

------------------
"CRIMSON PANTS, WHITE STRIPES"
 

BamaKam

BamaNation Citizen
Sep 1, 2002
55
0
0
Orlando, FL
OK, Castille is NOT gonna play D. I'm not on the staff of course, but it's common knowledge that he is the best RB in the state and one of the top 5 in the nation. I don't even think he plays D in HS.

I agree that Moose could move to TE, MLB or DE, but we aren't exactly loaded at FB. Luke is undersized and McClain has yet to play a down in college yet (neither has Luke for that matter). I doubt that we go next year (again) with no experience at FB.

Tyson Thomas did not even start for his JUCO last year and I have heard from other sources that he DOES NOT have an offer from Bama. Some kids think that they have been offered when they receive a letter from the school...that's not always the case.

Another issue that I am sure the staff is considering is that our depth is gonna be hit hard in the next few years with scholly restrictions. It just doesn't make sense to bring in a JUCO, especially a JUCO RB when you have very good, experienced depth at the position. The only RB we lose this year is Galloway and he is already gone. We are averaging well over 200 yds rushing per game. Thomas is not the answer!

BTW, I feel better knowing that he doesn't have an offer at this time. There are about 15 recruits (minimum) more highly regarded by this staff; and most of them are 4 year players.

[This message has been edited by BamaKam (edited October 10, 2002).]
 

BamaKam

BamaNation Citizen
Sep 1, 2002
55
0
0
Orlando, FL
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by MUSSO:
Castille to play defense?????


what a perfect waste of an excellent athlete!
</font>
I was wondering when you would chime in again Musso. Thanks for the backup.
 

MUSSO

BamaNation Citizen
Mar 9, 2001
74
0
0
Tallahassee, FL
BamaKam,

well i was standing by the whole time, but i found it too exhausting to reinvent the wheel with some of these posters.

finally, when i read the part about Castille playing defense i was compelled to say something. something so ridiculous as that could not go without being addressed!
 

ROLLER

Banned
Mar 3, 2002
481
4
0
Winnersville, AL, USA
How is it so impossible with Bama going into next season with what you guys say is great depth at running back? HUH Let's say Tim gains 10 or 25 pounds and is not as fast as advertised. I'd say he could end up on defense very easily. Remember we are loaded at RB. So why even offer Castille? Why offer Packer? Why? Because the coaches are after the best athletes. Maybe Thomas will be moved to defense, I don't know but I wouldn't call the idea ridiculous if I wasn't on the staff. I willing to bet you Castille doesn't play running back and I know about his credentials and his expectations. I have followed Tim since he helped win the championship as an 8th grade receiver. The guy just continues to grow and he is very intelligent so the move to another position will not be hard for him IMO.

Luke is not far (weight wise) from being a FB. He was 215 coming out of highschool. BTW that is less than Castille's 219.Castille at FB? Maybe...

So because we have limited schollies, we don't recruit JUCO players? HUH? Then why did CDF and staff get Pope, Childress, or Scott? I would think that during this time we would recruit players that have some collegiate experience and can produce immediately.

------------------
"CRIMSON PANTS, WHITE STRIPES"
 

BamaKam

BamaNation Citizen
Sep 1, 2002
55
0
0
Orlando, FL
*sigh*

Ok, most FB's are at least 235-240 and usually bigger, Luke reported at 208, tiny for a FB. He came in lighter so that he could get a shot at TB.

Playing Castille, a future SUPERSTAR at TB, at any other position is a huge mistake and will not happen. He has grown to 228 this year and is a big back, but hardly a fullback. He is magical with a football in his hands.

We did sign 3 jucos last year:

* Childress is a 3 year player, so practically like signing a HS kid.

* Pope is a nephew of a current Tide Coach, there was a special circumstance.

* Scott was a former player for Torbush at NC, same special circumstance.

We also had horrible problems recruiting last year if you remember due to the sanctions being unknown until a few days before signing day. As a result, a lot of players that normally would have loved to come to Bama did not consider us. Therefore, we had to sign JUCO's to fill spots. That is most assuredly not the case this season as our 12 commits to date show.

Unless Bama misses on about 20 HS players for the 8 or so scholly's that they will offer in Feb., they will not sign any JUCO's this year.

By the way, I see that you have "Crimson pants white stripes" in you sig, are you actually in favor of that? If so, that further dilutes your credibility


But it's been interesting chatting with you.



[This message has been edited by BamaKam (edited October 12, 2002).]
 

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