Has Obama really been harmed by Rev. Wright?

BamaNation

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Excellent post .


Be prepared for for a few more attempts at humor heading your way . :p_blank:
thanks,however I should have said that, unlike so many leftists in this country over the past 8 years, I'll gladly accept whoever is president as MY president even if I disagree radically with their policies.

I would urge others to do the same. That, alone, would make a world of difference in the dialogue.

Someone said the other day that the reason conservatives generally like Obama, personally, is that he's the first liberal leader (and particularly for a black liberal leader) that doesn't seem to hate us for being conservatives. Now, given Rev.Wright's statements, he might hate me for being white, but at least not for being conservative. :D
 

92tide

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I would love for thereto be an honest discussion about race in this country.
again, i honestly think that is what obama's speech was attempting to begin. he denounced the [good?] reverends positions/statements, while trying to understand that they were driven by something more than just stupidity and racism.

many see that as excusing the rev's statements. i see that as trying to understand where it is coming from. and again, i see the two as vastly different. honest discussion cannot begin without first understanding where the other side is coming from.

Let's say a right-winger visited oh,say, Timothy McVeigh and sought his approval before running for office, but he only did it a couple of times, would that be ok, too?
there are a lot of unsavory characters that have been/will be visited by/associated with both sides, unfortunately, that is the nature of our system as it stands.
 
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92tide

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thanks,however I should have said that, unlike so many leftists in this country over the past 8 years, I'll gladly accept whoever is president as MY president even if I disagree radically with their policies.

I would urge others to do the same. That, alone, would make a world of difference in the dialogue.

Someone said the other day that the reason conservatives generally like Obama, personally, is that he's the first liberal leader (and particularly for a black liberal leader) that doesn't seem to hate us for being conservatives. Now, given Rev.Wright's statements, he might hate me for being white, but at least not for being conservative.
very good post BN (not that my approval means anything ;) ). and btw, i have never thought of pres bush as not being my president. and also, not all of us who support obama are "lefties" :)
 

BamaNation

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again, i honestly think that is what obama's speech was attempting to begin. he denounced the [good?] reverends positions/statements, while trying to understand that they were driven by something more than just stupidity and racism.
And that's where I think he and those supporting him are truly mistaken. The statements ARE driven by stupidity and racism. To say anything other than that excuses all the stupid and racist statements made by the idiots in the KKK and the like. I see no other way around this one other than to admit it.


there are a lot of unsavory characters that have been/will be visited by/associated with both sides, unfortunately, that is the nature of our system as it stands.
So asking for McVeigh's blessing would be treated as not a big deal by the Left?

Otherwise, very true and this is one of the major problems I've had with the Bush 41 & 43 - their close associations with the Saudi ruling families. It's surely for political expediency, but nonetheless at what point do we say enough?
 
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jthomas666

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I would love for thereto be an honest discussion about race in this country. I think we would have done well to have a reconciliation council like that in South Africa - but the time is way past for that and we need to focus on, as Obama so eloquently puts it, "Hope", and not keep relying on the same stupid & outdated divisive racial arguments of the past. For people of our/my generation, we couldn't care less and fully buy into the 'content of one's character and not the color of one's skin' admonishment of Dr. King. The problem is that there is a whole industry caught up in the latter and not the former (i.e. Rev Wright, Rev. Jackson, Rev Sharpe,etc). Until and unless these old minded folks and old minded white folks die out, we're going to keep hearing the same tired arguments about the same things over and over.
I'd love to hear you expand on this, because it does line up with many of the things that Obama said in his speech. I would also suggest that you might be generalizing a bit concerning your generation. Hatred is being passed on to succeeding generations. As with most problems, simply ignoring it won't make it go away.
 

BamaNation

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I'd love to hear you expand on this, because it does line up with many of the things that Obama said in his speech.
I'll expound later when i get a chance. But, basically, what I'm talking about is NOT trying to explain things away or give me a "reason" for the hate. That's as stupid as trying to give me a "reason" that bin Laden did what he did. There is no reason other than hate and stupidity. Trying to explain it only justifies it. Obama should have said "Rev Wright is an idiot and he and I are on totally different pages and I don't agree with anything he's said." But what he did is try to give me a history lesson on why black folks are racists against white folks all the while throwing his grandmother under a bus and characterizing my church as one where I surely have heard the same type things in a white perspective from the pulpit - which I most assuredly have never heard. In fact, I've never heard a single sermon coming even close to political discourse from the pulpit and would deem it wholely inappropriate to do so. I would most likely leave - even if the preacher was saying things I agreed with because I don't go to church to hear political discourse.

I would also suggest that you might be generalizing a bit concerning your generation. Hatred is being passed on to succeeding generations. As with most problems, simply ignoring it won't make it go away.
You're right. One only has to go to the Trinity United Church of Christ to verify this fact.
 
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cbi1972

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I'd love to hear you expand on this, because it does line up with many of the things that Obama said in his speech. I would also suggest that you might be generalizing a bit concerning your generation. Hatred is being passed on to succeeding generations. As with most problems, simply ignoring it won't make it go away.
 

jthomas666

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And that's where I think he and those supporting him are truly mistaken. The statements ARE driven by stupidity and racism. To say anything other than that excuses all the stupid and racist statements made by the idiots in the KKK and the like. I see no other way around this one other than to admit it.
It's easy to dismiss something as stupid. The nice thing about doing so is then you get to trot out the old saw, "You can't fix stupid", and walk away with clean hands. Doing so is a terrible oversimplification. Stupid? Fine. How'd they get stupid?

I think you might be overlooking the content of Obama's speech. His point, IMO, is that while people like Wright make stupid, racist statements, it is the lingering bitterness and despair that provide such statements with an audience, that allow the festering wounds to be passed on to the next generation. The same is true on the other side of the racial divide as well--bitterness over losing a job to an affirmative action candidate, for example.

If we don't recognize and address the causes of the bitterness and distrust, the cycle will continue. Is it possible to save people such as Wright, or KKK leaders? Probably not. But we can make it harder for them to pass on their venom to the future.

And now I'll tempt fate by marching up and slapping Godwin's Law in the face. In the mid 1930s, the charges that Hitler made against the Jews were patently false. Anyone could see how ludicrous the claims were. But Germany at the time was in despair, embittered by years economic depression, and so the poisonous seeds found fertile ground. Perhaps you noticed that simply waiting until the previous generation died off didn't do much to extinguish that particular brand of hatred.

Peace.
 
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BamaNation

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It's easy to dismiss something as stupid. The nice thing about doing so is then you get to trot out the old saw, "You can't fix stupid", and walk away with clean hands. Doing so is a terrible oversimplification. Stupid? Fine. How'd they get stupid?

I think you might be overlooking the content of Obama's speech. His point, IMO, is that while people like Wright make stupid, racist statements, it is the lingering bitterness and despair that provide such statements with an audience, that allow the festering wounds to be passed on to the next generation. The same is true on the other side of the racial divide as well--bitterness over losing a job to an affirmative action candidate, for example.

If we don't recognize and address the causes of the bitterness and distrust, the cycle will continue. Is it possible to save people such as Wright, or KKK leaders? Probably not. But we can make it harder for them to pass on their venom to the future.

And now I'll tempt fate by marching up and slapping Godwin's Law in the face. In the mid 1930s, the charges that Hitler made against the Jews were patently false. Anyone could see how ludicrous the claims were. But Germany at the time was in despair, embittered by years economic depression, and so the poisonous seeds found fertile ground. Perhaps you noticed that simply waiting until the previous generation died off didn't do much to extinguish that particular brand of hatred.

Peace.

First, I understand the 'stupidity' point and actually agree with your take and am surely oversimplifying it by what I said.

Second, I would argue that it's the people like Rev Wright, Jackson, and Sharpton (and most of the condescending liberals who have white guilt) who are preventing a reconciliation of the races. Do you really think the current status quo from these so called Christian ministers is what MLK wanted? I hope not. There is AMPLE opportunity for people out there of all races who want to go to school, who want to succeed, who want a good job, who want to have nice things for their children and grandchildren. Sitting around and talking about the blight of slavery (or carpet baggers in reconstruction) doesn't do anything but make people mad.

I'm all for the racial problems discussion. Let's let everyone have their say, get it off our chest, and move forward. What we need are solutions and not just rhetoric or symbols or more hate speech in churches. At the end of the day the same question remains: What is the solution? Is it preferential treatment/ affirmative action? Is it free healthcare and education for minorities? Is it free food for life? Is it guaranteed jobs making X dollars? Is it a pat on the back? Is it lowering standards for everyone? What exactly is it?

I would argue that the way to reconciliation is for all people in America to be treated equally, to expect equal treatment, and to allow for differences in opinion and culture to not matter. I think you would find that is a reasonable solution. But what else?

gotta go. good debate :)
 

Crimson Speed

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I'm sure there have been several racist presidents over the years. Trouble is, I've had enough of that, I don't care what color he or she happens to be.
I have heard several people say "we don't need a black president". I disagree. What we need is a president of all the people. That president will not see color as he leads the country.

Now, enter Obama. I thought he was a breath of fresh air for our nation. I was listening and observing what he was saying about what he believes the country needs. Then I am shocked by the Pastor Wright racist remarks and the fact that Obama listened to that venom for so long, doing nothing. Even worse, he let his children hear that poison.

People surround themselves with others they are comfortable around. Obama obviously, has no problem with Pastor Wright or he would have found another church for his family to attend. Objectively minded people people have to recognize Wright as a racist and unfortunately, clearly meets the definition of a bigot. Why would Obama want to associate himself with this type of person unless he had no problem with his philosophy?

I don't want another racist president, white or black. I am tired of seeing politicans play the race card. This country has had enough of it.

There are too many unanswered questions about Obama, so, no, I will not be supporting him for president. Now, Condi Rice; I would love to see her as our president or vice president.
 
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Crimson Speed

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I just saw some more video where he attacked Tiger Woods...I guess he was suggesting that Tiger has sold out to the rich white man's world. He referred to "Condoskeeza" Rice. He even teed off on Colin Powell.

Nope - this one is not going away. Nor should it.

How are we supposed to move on to a color blind society?

Obama's record does not put him in the transcendant place he wants to be in. Without Wright, that may have been possible. Sorry, guys, black separatism is not going to work come election day. Like it or not, this ain't going to get much better.
And I agree. But, I will admit, Obama had me very intrigued for a while. With the recent revelations of his racial separatist belief, I'm done with him. Unfortunately for some on here, they just refuse to see it.

This country is not perfect, but the last thing we need is a president that subscribes to Marxist and Socialist theories. Read the article in the link below. It is an eye opener.

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=59340
 

Bamabuzzard

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This is nothing more than the double standard and free pass that blacks get when bashing white people. Turn the situation around. Does anybody on here really think if it would have been a white pastor, a white church and a white senator running for office and those types of racial comments were made about blacks would the senator even still have a job? I doubt it. He would have Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson (that in reality hate white people) DEMANDING for him to back out of the election.

White people are given a zero tolerance policy when it comes to racial comments. Where as blacks can fire away at whitey with little to no consequences. My view is put the racist, his racist wife and his racist pastor in office. I could care less. Because the unspoken thought is that blacks think that a black president can do a better job BECAUSE he's black. Put the racist and his racist supporters in office and let him have it. I would like to see how much of a "better job" he can do. But when he eff's up is he going to be ripped to shreds like Bush? Or is he going to be handled with kitty gloves in order that it won't seem like he's being unfairly criticized because he's black?

And on another note it seems that a lot of blacks think if Obama is president that he's going to put all the whites in cotton fields picking cotton. I've over heard and been in many conversation with blacks that have the belief that if Obama is elected that the blacks are finally going to get "what they deserve" and the whites are going to get "what they deserve". I'm not sure where they're getting this belief from but I hear a lot of it here in my neck of the woods.
 
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jthomas666

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This is nothing more than the double standard and free pass that blacks get when bashing white people. Turn the situation around. Does anybody on here really think if it would have been a white pastor, a white church and a white senator running for office and those types of racial comments were made about blacks would the senator even still have a job? I doubt it. He would have Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson (that in reality hate white people) DEMANDING for him to back out of the election.

White people are given a zero tolerance policy when it comes to racial comments. Where as blacks can fire away at whitey with little to no consequences. My view is put the racist, his racist wife and his racist pastor in office. I could care less. Because the unspoken thought is that blacks think that a black president can do a better job BECAUSE he's black. Put the racist and his racist supporters in office and let him have it. I would like to see how much of a "better job" he can do. But when he eff's up is he going to be ripped to shreds like Bush? Or is he going to be handled with kitty gloves in order that it won't seem like he's being unfairly criticized because he's black?

And on another note it seems that a lot of blacks think if Obama is president that he's going to put all the whites in cotton fields picking cotton. I've over heard and been in many conversation with blacks that have the belief that if Obama is elected that the blacks are finally going to get "what they deserve" and the whites are going to get "what they deserve". I'm not sure where they're getting this belief from but I hear a lot of it here in my neck of the woods.
This post contains the exact sort of racial bitterness that Obama wants to address.
 

jthomas666

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Disagree with any of it, though? The first paragraph, especially, was spot on.
Do I agree that Jackson and Sharpton are racial opportunists of the first order? Absolutely. Do those two HATE white people? That I don't know. Both are shameless in their ability to exploit white guilt for their own selfish ends.

But here's the thing: You want more Sharptons and Jacksons? Just keep telling yourself that all racial problems are the result of people like Wright, Sharpton, and Jackson.

Can Obama solve the problem? Please. No one man, short of Jesus Christ Himself, can solve this problem all alone. But Obama has shown that he at least understands the dynamics at work, and that's an oh-so-important first step.

More to the point, is this one issue going to determine who I vote for? No. But the two primary alternatives have both demonstrated over the last several years that they'll gleefully sell out every principle they've ever held dear to achieve the presidency. And I'm just tired of that crap.
 

doctorgonzo

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Seriously, what is Obama going to do to end whatever amount of racial strife that still exists in this country? He's just a politician. Is he going to legislate this country into racial harmony? If a President was even able to acheive such ends, why have they not done it before now?

From now until election day, both the Democrat and Republican candidates are going to make promises that they'll never be able to keep. Either of them will say or do anything necessary to get elected. It's up to the American people to keep things in perspective.
 

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