Faster tempo offense question. Causing confusion?

Bamafan P.T.

All-SEC
Oct 15, 2005
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CNS doesn't platoon, but it's close to it, particularly with the LBs, DBs, and, to some degree, the DL. His defense is much more complex than almost any other and he has a personnel package - with separate training - for each offensive situation. It's no wonder that he hates the HUNH offenses. It interferes big time with his basic defensive philosophy. When we make substitutions on defense, it's a hurried matter, with the offense in their set, ready to go, and with the refs holding them back while we get set. I noticed last night, that we were almost always still giving hand signals and trying to get into position when the snap occurred. It may mean that CNS will have to simplify his defensive sets and I know that's anathema to him. It may also mean that we recruit different body types, as several other posters have stated...
Sounds like you agree with me more today Earle :)

I don't think it hurt, because we did each sub in response to an offensive substitution of theirs - and we took our own sweet time in doing it. That's our right under the rules and we slowed the game down measurably in doing it...

We were out of position at the snap several times last night and had to burn a TO once. Not to mention guys narrowly getting off he field in time and the fatigue from the 30 yd repetitive sprints getting on and off. I don't think we will see any significant change from CNS but as you said, it's why he hates the hurry up spread offenses.
 
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CapstoneTider

Suspended
Dec 6, 2000
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I believe the defense is feeling the sting of losing all those underclassman now.
We had more players leave a year early than all the other years put together pre CNS.
 
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Bamabuzzard

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Slow the game down, run at, over and around their smaller defenses until they break. Mix in enough passing to be efficient at it, not great, but efficient. It's nothing more than getting them to play a style of football they don't want to. Much like they do to others.

I think Saturday our problems were fatigue from previous week's emotional and physical game. Our players not executing on plays that were there to be made. Also, our staff not recognizing and being patient with what was working. When you average over 4 yards a rush you keep doing it. It quickly becomes 6 and 7 yards a rush.

There's no need to over haul anything. Again, much like a boxing match and the two fighters trying to get their opponent to fight their style fight. We (for a second straight week) tried to fight our opponent's style fight. Even though there was evidence throughout the game that we had opportunities to change the flow of the game. I'm sorry, when "you're" averaging 6.6 yards per carry (LSU game rushing average) and then over 4 yards per carry (aTm game) in a game. You ride that mule 'til it drops dead. aTm's defense was beginning to break. Danielson even mentioned it. But we got caught up in the bottle rocket show and joined in.
 

TexasTideFan

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Feb 6, 2003
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That was a sub-500 team that blew every game due to coaching. They have a solid qb. An excellent head coach. A great OC and DC. Give them some credit, for Pete's sake. We didn't lose to Kentucky. That team that we played yesterday might have beaten all but the top four or five teams in America.
Agree. A&M just doesn't have a solid QB, they have a potential Heisman winner. If they don't have Johnny Football, I doubt they win this game even running an up tempo Offense. This kid is not only a running threat but a very accurate passer. Bama has it's problems with QB's like this, aka Cam Newton circa 2010.
 

bama2112

All-American
Nov 19, 2006
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I'll bite, but you and just about everyone on here will not like my opinion, that's okay.

The kind of offense we saw yesterday is the future of college football. It is being taught and run at high schools across the country and that's what kids want to be a part of.
It is designed to create confusion, personnel mismatches, and getting playmakers in space. It requires speed over bulk.
To defense it you have to have similar type players more speed less bulk.
I have seen over the past several years the lack of overall team speed in our defense.

Now for Alabama. We have had the benefit of a weak schedule, the only 2 teams we have played with any semblance of an offense has been LSU and TAMU. We should win out because WCU and au are terrible, but right now I don't think we beat UGA. My reason for picking UGA is that Alabama now knows they can be beaten and when doubt sets in anything can happen. I hope I am wrong and we win the SECC, but his team is not nearly as good as the 2011 team. Now to don my flak jacket.
I hope you have several flack jackets. Maybe you should get Pat Dye to get on the radio again and tell the Georgia players they arent man enough to beat Bama. By the way that was the last time UGA beat us.

I just dont see Richt beating Saban. If you need more flack jackets just call the president I am sure he has some hidden away.
 

RollBamaRoll90

BamaNation Citizen
Aug 10, 2012
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As an aside, I expect UGA to approach the SEC Championship Game in this fashion.
Agreed. Bama's defense has been exposed to this type approach, look for UGA to use it against us. Murray not as good as Johnny football but still good and very capable of making big plays in big games.
 

Bamabuzzard

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Agreed. Bama's defense has been exposed to this type approach, look for UGA to use it against us. Murray not as good as Johnny football but still good and very capable of making big plays in big games.
It's the faster pace of the offense. Not necessarily a specific type of offense. LSU ran a pro style offense and simply picked up the pace and went to higher percentage passes mixed with a balance of running and had success.
 

CapstoneTider

Suspended
Dec 6, 2000
7,453
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For anyone who has kept up with it, are we containing better with the 3-4 or the nickle? I was surprised when I learned that Mosely in addition to Sunseri are not in our starting 3-4 defense. Sunseri is just too big to play a DB the entire game, we found that out during the 1st game of the season. He was worn out at games end. But Mosely? He seems like the type of player we need on the field all the time.

So we have 3 big down lineman that do an effective job in the middle, but lack an outside pass rusher for the 2nd season like a Javier Arenas. With the spread, they have gotten past our line fairly easily and we make the play 5 to 7 yards out, and if we miss a tackle it will be another 10 yard gain. You apply more pressure at the line, but the QB makes these last second throws and somehow completes them. At that point the WR's are probably just freelancing around. Not a very organized offense, but it leads to us being disorganized as well.

Do you believe we would have these problems with the underclassman who left still here :) What a defense we would have . And the coaches can't necessarily predict a few years in advance who and how many will be leaving early, and this can create a development and leadership gap which I believe we have this year. Several times for example Sunseri makes a big play and his teammates didn't show enthusiasm towards him, they just went back to their positions. Next year the defense should be more consistent imo.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Oct 13, 1999
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For anyone who has kept up with it, are we containing better with the 3-4 or the nickle? I was surprised when I learned that Mosely in addition to Sunseri are not in our starting 3-4 defense. Sunseri is just too big to play a DB the entire game, we found that out during the 1st game of the season. He was worn out at games end. But Mosely? He seems like the type of player we need on the field all the time.

So we have 3 big down lineman that do an effective job in the middle, but lack an outside pass rusher for the 2nd season like a Javier Arenas. With the spread, they have gotten past our line fairly easily and we make the play 5 to 7 yards out, and if we miss a tackle it will be another 10 yard gain. You apply more pressure at the line, but the QB makes these last second throws and somehow completes them. At that point the WR's are probably just freelancing around. Not a very organized offense, but it leads to us being disorganized as well.

Do you believe we would have these problems with the underclassman who left still here :) What a defense we would have . And the coaches can't necessarily predict a few years in advance who and how many will be leaving early, and this can create a development and leadership gap which I believe we have this year. Several times for example Sunseri makes a big play and his teammates didn't show enthusiasm towards him, they just went back to their positions. Next year the defense should be more consistent imo.
This is true and it's doubly hard with the 85 limit. I'm really concerned about next year's defense. We may have our first genuine "rebuilding" year in several years on both sides of the ball, depending on who leaves...
 

CrimsonProf

Hall of Fame
Dec 30, 2006
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This is true and it's doubly hard with the 85 limit. I'm really concerned about next year's defense. We may have our first genuine "rebuilding" year in several years on both sides of the ball, depending on who leaves...
I think next year is definitely a 8-4 sort of year unless some real bright spots emerge. Sort of like LSU 2008, but hopefully with more competency.
 

rizolltizide

Hall of Fame
Jan 4, 2003
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When a .500 team last season from what is considered a weaker conference, with a new head coach, QB, and offense comes in your house and does this to you, it is time to think about things. The spread made even Ole Miss look good. It is just a new version of the option and makes the QB a threat. Why the best recruiting team in the nation can't come up with an excellent dual threat QB is beyond me. And knowing that Oregon was possibly on the horizon, it was time to play three CBs instead of three safeties.
How's that working out for Baylor this year?
 

10Bama54

1st Team
Sep 16, 2006
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This is just a case where offenses are starting to change to meet the harsh reality of great defenses. Great Defensive minded coaches will figure this out in a couple of years and it drive more innovation. One thing that bothers me is our reliance on subbing constantly for different packages. Just put our best on the field instead of platooning. Just my 2 cents.
I Agree completely. It doesn't seem like we can get into any kind of a rhythm defensively.
 

lincoln_osiris

1st Team
Feb 11, 2009
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It's the faster pace of the offense. Not necessarily a specific type of offense. LSU ran a pro style offense and simply picked up the pace and went to higher percentage passes mixed with a balance of running and had success.
True...We have already simplified our defense due to these offenses. There is just not enough time for us to adjust let alone sub. If you think back, Ro used to audible the entire defense when the offense gave different looks. Hightower as well. Mosely and Nico are probably capable of this as well but there is not enough time to get everyone else set. If you watch Mosely through out the game he almost always knows where the play is going, but with a hurry up there is not time to get everyone else in position to stop it.
 

RTR91

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Nov 23, 2007
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Notice that if these offenses have a negative play on first down they do not go hurry up. Obviously, it's easier said than done many times, but a good way to slow them down is to get a sack or incompletetion on first down. That is the time to bring a blitz. Throws off the offense's rhythm big time.
 

AustinTider

Scout Team
Sep 26, 2006
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The Wishbone looked like it was unstoppable.
The 9 man DL Notre Dame used with bump coverage stopped it.

The Fun and Gun was useful at UF until defenses caught up with it.
Spurrier does not run that now (exactly) at USCe.

Manziel will run wild until defenses catch up (and they will).
Until then aTm risks 90% of their offense getting a knee or shoulder taken out with each scramble. (Or worse concussion)
They will not win the SEC outright next year because their offense won't cut it week in and week out.
Too many plays and risks. Too many opps for injuries.
Funny thing is LSU won by less than a TD and benefitted by 5 TOs against aTm.
Alabama outgained aTm and gave them the ball 3 times on turnovers....
Nick will win at Kyle next year. He will devote hundreds of hours to figure it out.

Durability is the future and the past of the SEC along with sound defense.
 

bamadp

All-SEC
Sep 24, 2006
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Football is a team game. That means your whole team, not just the half that plays offense. Teams with these up-tempo offenses are basically saying their defensive personnel is lacking and hoping to outscore opponents to make up for it.The biggest problem is that these offenses tend to weaken your defense (who do ya think they practice against), and if they don't outscore you, they have no hope. Take Saturdays game for example, our offense played poorly but we still could have won. Without a stellar performance from their QB A&M would have lost handily. If our offense had played better, Manzeil and company wouldn't have been on the field nearly as much. As the last few NCGs have shown, sacrificing your D for a better O is not the way too go.
Mack Brown used to throw it all over the field with McCoy, until he found out in the NCG that they couldn't run the ball or tackle. Brian Kelly used to throw 40-50 times a game at Cincy, but now his D has led ND. IOW you can be unbeaten with a poor O but great D, but it's not likely with a great O and crappy D...ask WVU.
 

CapstoneTider

Suspended
Dec 6, 2000
7,453
6
0
Football is a team game. That means your whole team, not just the half that plays offense.
Agree.
It would seem that you have a greater chance of consistency with an even spread of the workload, that's why I dislike Dual Threat quarterbacks and the spread. You are at the mercy of 1 player. And recruiting them is a crap-shoot regardless of their star rating. Most will get you 7 wins, when you luck out and win the lottery with the 1 or 2 good one's each year, they can take you to 10-2. It takes Bo Jackson with an arm to get you a National Championship. And when they leave, we are talking about a mother leaving her chicks.....you would be better off with your coach leaving. No spread of dual threat for me, I just want to be able to defend them better!!!:cool::BigA:
 

Bama By Birth

3rd Team
Dec 3, 2010
274
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The philosophy of this coaching staff is to recruit the biggest, strongest athletes to wear down the other team by the 4th quarter. This came out of Coach Smart's mouth 2 years ago at a function I was fortunate enough to attend.

How does that work out with a quick paced, no huddle offense? If everyone does their job it can work.

I have noticed that opposing quarterbacks have all day to throw unless we blitz someone. I sure wish Mr. Clowney would have chosen us!
 

CapstoneTider

Suspended
Dec 6, 2000
7,453
6
0
The philosophy of this coaching staff is to recruit the biggest, strongest athletes to wear down the other team by the 4th quarter. This came out of Coach Smart's mouth 2 years ago at a function I was fortunate enough to attend.

How does that work out with a quick paced, no huddle offense? If everyone does their job it can work.

I have noticed that opposing quarterbacks have all day to throw unless we blitz someone. I sure wish Mr. Clowney would have chosen us!
Exactly. Is David Pain still around? I miss players with that dimension. Clowney is the prototype. The size for the line but the speed of a linebacker. Clowney wanted the 4-3. Players like him are once every 4 years.
 

TexasTideFan

All-American
Feb 6, 2003
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Agree.
No spread of dual threat for me, I just want to be able to defend them better!!!:cool::BigA:
Easier said than done. Mobile QB's make a Defense commit one extra player to stop them. That takes 1 guy out of coverage and if your mobile QB is as accurate a passer as a Johnny Football or RGIII, you can torch a Defense in alot of Man Coverage if your receivers are good. Then if your QB is as athletic with some speed and you fail to contain, then that opens up a whole new set of problems when they take off running. The only way to really shut down this type of Offense is to just nail the QB enough times to make the dude gunshy when he runs or make mental errors when he throws. You fail to do that and those QB's usually win Heismans at the end of the year. Add the fact that these QB's are usually in fast paced Offenses that go so high tempo the Defense is usually gassed or they get so shock and awed when they first see it, they are down multiple scores before they can settle into the fast paced flow of the game.
 

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