Dee Millners Pick that wasn't

CRMSNtide

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I thought the ball hit the ground, but it was also clearly shown that no one tipped the ball on that play right before the blocked kick.
If they were going with what was called on the field in this game, they should have done that on this play too.
 

bamafaninOhiO

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I think the 2 calls that were not overturned, the Lacy touchdown and the non-tipped pass, were costly. Those 2 were worth 14 pts possibly. I know this is off topic, but I still claim the pass was not tipped and therefore should have been a PI call.
Also, if we would have had a better angle, I think evidence would have showed Lacy did stretch the ball across before it was knocked out of his hand. We didn't have a clear shot on goal line of that one. Player was in the way.
I thought we had a shot of the non-tipped pass had they taken more time to examine it. No change of spin or direction of the flight of the ball. Furthermore, with the view from behind the QB, it showed space between the defender's hands and the ball. Unfortunately, the next play they block our FG and score a TD.
I also think if Depriest's foot was not in the way, we could have seen Gurley's knee down before he reached the endzone. Oh well. Roll tide anyway.
...which is why those calls weren't overturned. I think the difference was on the Interception, the one angle available definitly showed the ball contacting the ground when not in complete control.
most of these calls were bang, bang variety...and I think that a couple went against us, but that doesnt mean they were horrible calls...IMO.

I see no signs of a bias against us, and I see nothing different from any other game i watch...some calls go for you, some go against you.
 

BigEasyTider

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The reversal on review was the right call.

Very hard to make out exactly what happened, but something looked funny and you can tell that Milliner did not catch it clean. He initially got his hands underneath the football, but he didn't make a clean catch of it right away, and as he was rolling over the ball was kind of straddling between both hands. At that point, without him having real possession, the ball gently touched the turf and that in and of itself means incompletion. Don't believe it helped him really secure the interception in any way -- not like the classic trap catch or something similar -- but the rule is the rule.

Knew we were in for a nailbiter when that one was overturned. All I could think of when I saw the replay was Tommy Johnson's dropped interception against Florida on the final drive in 1994. Just knew that was happening all over again.

Worst part was, as mentioned above, the length of time the review took, which I think really had less to do with the interception call and more an attempt to try to spot the ball correctly and get the clock right. Jess probably said it best in the postgame, we should have just called timeout after that to regroup.
 

KrAzY3

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You'd think.
The issue here isn't that it was a horribly officiated game. I think you could let it all come down to the replay booth and perhaps how replays are done.

I can think of four plays, all crucial, and every call went Georgia's way. I'm not sure how often that happens but the one time they decide to overturn a ruling on the field, of course... of course it's in favor of Georgia.

Gurly was down, Lacy scored a TD, the pass wasn't tipped. Now, you can argue a bit about each, but every one of those went the other way. Then, when you seemed to have a precedent of sticking with the ruling on the field, suddenly... after all of that and not believing our lying eyes, they decide to overturn a interception which in the least had no more visible evidence than the "tipped pass" did.

So, it's easy enough to look at this and say we won didn't we? Well yeah, but had they gotten two crucial calls on the field correct, it might not have even been a close game. My wife is German but she's a big football fan. You know what an idiot I felt like trying to explain to her why that phantom tipped pass stood? It's like explaining to a child why people murder, there's no nice, reasonable way to do it.
 

BigEasyTider

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One more quick point...

If 'Bama fans want to be upset at officiating on the final drive, don't talk about the interception (which was probably the right call), complain about the bodyslam of Square on the final big pass play down the middle. Square beat the center bad on a little inside move, and he was outright tackled and the refs never flinched.

That right there should have been the end of the game. That moves UGA back to the 50, the time comes off the clock on the play anyway, and then you have 15 seconds left, no timeouts, 20+ yards needed for a first down, with your only real shot of being a Hail Mary. We got absolutely robbed on that one.
 

TheBamaMan

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The issue here isn't that it was a horribly officiated game. I think you could let it all come down to the replay booth and perhaps how replays are done.

I can think of four plays, all crucial, and every call went Georgia's way. I'm not sure how often that happens but the one time they decide to overturn a ruling on the field, of course... of course it's in favor of Georgia.

Gurly was down, Lacy scored a TD, the pass wasn't tipped. Now, you can argue a bit about each, but every one of those went the other way. Then, when you seemed to have a precedent of sticking with the ruling on the field, suddenly... after all of that and not believing our lying eyes, they decide to overturn a interception which in the least had no more visible evidence than the "tipped pass" did.

So, it's easy enough to look at this and say we won didn't we? Well yeah, but had they gotten two crucial calls on the field correct, it might not have even been a close game. My wife is German but she's a big football fan. You know what an idiot I felt like trying to explain to her why that phantom tipped pass stood? It's like explaining to a child why people murder, there's no nice, reasonable way to do it.
QUit looking at it as "going the other way". Look at it like this, since the replay did show you could argue either way, you CANT overturn the original call. Its that simple. On the INT, if this had not been against Bama, we wouldnt even be having this crazy thread that I for some reason keep partaking of. It was easily overturned by replay.
 

KrAzY3

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QUit looking at it as "going the other way". Look at it like this, since the replay did show you could argue either way, you CANT overturn the original call. Its that simple. On the INT, if this had not been against Bama, we wouldnt even be having this crazy thread that I for some reason keep partaking of. It was easily overturned by replay.
I was bunching three things together. There is 0 evidence that the pass was tipped. 0... absolutely nothing. That call was based on an assumption and stood because of how hard it is to prove a negative. They basically said "can you prove he didn't touch it?" and what on earth kind of way to officiate a game is that? I'm betting there were more and better angles on that to, that we didn't see but the replay booth could barely be bothered to look at all.

That's the hang up for me. Do I fault them for not calling Gurley down on the field? No, I don't... but then why do they not give Lacy the same benefit of a doubt? I'll let that go though, but the tipped pass was just absurd. It was a call that Georgia lobbied for and got and that makes it worse. The flag was on the field. So, they overturned the play on the field essentially, rather than letting replay take a look. That was a horrible way to do it, and was biased by the very process. Just leave the flag, and you and I both know they had 0 evidence of the tipped pass on film.

Someone explain why that call on the field should have been changed (after lobbying by Georgia) to tipped pass and then why in turn that should not have been overturned by the replay official and I'll gladly let go of the interception (I do think it was the right call, but I don't think it was an obviously overturnable call, can you prove to me he's not underneath it? I'll look at that picture), Lacy, and Gurley play. Combined it's just too much to stomach, win or lose...
 
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KrAzY3

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It was a bad spiral, it went right past a player's hand, one of the ref's made a split second decision. On Gurley's TD, called on the field a TD, not enough evidence he didn't score. On Lacy, call on the field was no TD, not enough evidence he scored. It's a simple as that. The tipped pass should have been reviewed, yes.
See, you don't explain why call on the field was TD for Gurley and not Lacy. That's all the difference in the world though isn't it? You blow the whistle on both plays, you have consistency. You call it a TD on both you have consistency. You have two very, very close plays and you break Georgia's way on each? That's unsettling. But, it's 50/50 by itself.

Then you get to the tipped pass (and I'll just leave the holding stuff alone, we expect missed holds). It was a flag, it was not a split section decision! Georgia lobbied, the refs talked it over and then they said tipped pass. Still no proof, but I guess they did a good job of lobbying because there was no immediate indication on the field that it was called a tip. There was a yellow flag which indicated it wasn't. Then they did review it, but despite what we saw, which was in the least enough to cause doubt it was only briefly reviewed.

Then that brings us to the interception. What had we seen so far? We saw plays on the field stands despite evidence to the contrary. We saw precedent, we also saw a brief little review on that crucial tipped pass. Instead, we get this long review and a reversal. Alabama fans had a right to be mad because where was that on the Gurley, Lacy, or tipped pass? That's the issue, you shouldn't wait until the last minute to develop an ability to take a hard look and reverse something.
 

marcusroby

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To me it says alot about how mentally strong this team is. With only 9 seniors on the team it's amazing to overcome the obstacles they faced. It speaks alot to the leadership on this roster also.
 

KrAzY3

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Lacy reached out towards the line for a split second before it was knocked out of his hand. I've seen replay after replay and lots of photos. After all that study, I think he scored. No way I would have called a touchdown in the moment. I thought Gurley scored. I would have called a touchdown. I had no problem with that call or the review.
I'm no math major, but while I could stomach those on an individual basis the statistical probability is not in favor of both going Georgia's way. I agree that neither was a terrible call though. I've also seen enough to believe Gurley was down and Lacy did score.

Take off the crimson colored glasses guys.
You're still glossing it over. Tipped pass call was horrible, it was bad. It was really bad. You could defend it if not for the flag. The flag was on the field because the guy throwing it didn't think it was tipped. He got overruled. Wrong call. It wasn't reviewed seriously, wrong call. This is bad, you are not supposed do that. It cost Alabama ten points, that's bad to. If Alabama lost this would have been why. If something like that happens in the Notre Dame game Alabama probably loses. I think we have a right to complain.

The whole, crimson colored glasses, Alabama are sore losers, all of that stuff is missing how utterly screwed up that call and the results of that call were. It wasn't just wrong once, it was wrong twice and those two wrongs overruled the initial call which was right. That's more than enough to make any football fan fed up. The complaints about the interception call is all in that light. They absolutely were not going to overturn a call on the field... oh wait, yeah they could do that so umm...
 
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TheBamaMan

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See, you don't explain why call on the field was TD for Gurley and not Lacy. That's all the difference in the world though isn't it? You blow the whistle on both plays, you have consistency. You call it a TD on both you have consistency. You have two very, very close plays and you break Georgia's way on each? That's unsettling. But, it's 50/50 by itself.

Then you get to the tipped pass (and I'll just leave the holding stuff alone, we expect missed holds). It was a flag, it was not a split section decision! Georgia lobbied, the refs talked it over and then they said tipped pass. Still no proof, but I guess they did a good job of lobbying because there was no immediate indication on the field that it was called a tip. There was a yellow flag which indicated it wasn't. Then they did review it, but despite what we saw, which was in the least enough to cause doubt it was only briefly reviewed.

Then that brings us to the interception. What had we seen so far? We saw plays on the field stands despite evidence to the contrary. We saw precedent, we also saw a brief little review on that crucial tipped pass. Instead, we get this long review and a reversal. Alabama fans had a right to be mad because where was that on the Gurley, Lacy, or tipped pass? That's the issue, you shouldn't wait until the last minute to develop an ability to take a hard look and reverse something.

Not true.... GO back and watch the play. The tipped ball was called before or right as the interference was called. I actually noticed the ref at the bottom of screen signalling tipped ball before i even saw the flag. The call was never "overturned" to a tipped ball, the call was left as called on the field due to not 100% evidence to overturn it.

Now do we as Bama fans swear that it wasn't tipped, yes of course. But can I see how the replay booth could not 100% about it, most definitely. At least from the views I saw. Guys some of you are complaining over stuff and you dont even remember what actually happened (Like the person 2 pages ago who said we got the snap off before running out of time on the fake punt.)
 

KrAzY3

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In my view, there was one bad call in this game. One. And that's the tipped pass. The reason that there was a flag is that the ref charged with preventing pass interference saw interference. Another ref, or possibly two or more, thought the ball was tipped. The huddled and discussed it, just as they should, and they came to the wrong decision. Then the review booth screwed up. That's a legitimate complaint.

I'm not sure why that bad call should have resulted in a bad call on the interception that would have ended the game.
We both know how pass interference works. The guy throwing the flag does not throw it if he sees the pass is tipped or anything that negates pass interference. His job is not to throw the flag if there is contact, it is to throw the flag if there is pass interference. He did, yes he was overruled but the notion that he was only looking for contact is misleading. He was looking for a legitimate pass interference call, which he saw and threw the flag on.

The lobbying and overruling legitimate pass interference is what brings in doubt to everything else that occurs. That flag was on the field and the cameras were moving around. Everyone could see what had taken place. Georgia was flagged for pass interference, Georgia was lobbying for tipped pass. They appeared to win.

It brought doubt into the entire process from there on out. Then you had to start thinking about why all four calls went Georgia's way.... I'm not justifying that leap, and I'm not going to keep going on and on about it. But, fans have a right to be unhappy. Four calls, four questionable calls, should not have all gone against Alabama, regardless of the situation, regardless of precedent, regardless of ruling on the field.

You take four plays, and accept the general notion that they could have gone either way (although in reality I'd say three should have gone Alabama's way based on what actually happened on the field). It's like a coin flip, 50/50 each time. What are the odds of heads four straight times? That's a 6% chance. There was a 94% chance that one of those crucial calls in doubt would have gone Alabama's way. Yet, they didn't. It's perfectly reasonable to walk away from that being upset.
 
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TheBamaMan

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We both know how pass interference works. The guy throwing the flag does not throw it if he sees the pass is tipped or anything that negates pass interference. His job is not to throw the flag if there is contact, it is to throw the flag if there is pass interference. He did, yes he was overruled but the notion that he was only looking for contact is misleading. He was looking for a legitimate pass interference call, which he saw and threw the flag on.

The lobbying and overruling legitimate pass interference is what brings in doubt to everything else that occurs. That flag was on the field and the cameras were moving around. Everyone could see what had taken place. Georgia was flagged for pass interference, Georgia was lobbying for tipped pass. They appeared to win.

It brought doubt into the entire process from there on out. Then you had to start thinking about why all four calls went Georgia's way.... I'm not justifying that leap, and I'm not going to keep going on and on about it. But, fans have a right to be unhappy. Four calls, four questionable calls, should not have all gone against Alabama, regardless of the situation, regardless of precedent, regardless of ruling on the field.

You take four plays, and accept the general notion that they could have gone either way (although in reality I'd say three should have gone Alabama's way on what actually happened on the field). It's like a coin flip, 50/50 each time. What are the odds of heads four straight times? That's a 6% chance. There was a 94% chance that one of those crucial calls in doubt would have gone Alabama's way. Yet, they didn't. It's perfectly reasonable to walk away from that being upset.
Yea lets have all the reviewed calls conclusions divided equally between both teams no matter what....:rolleyes:
 

BamaFanatJSU

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Lot of confirmation bias here. All the calls didn't go Georgia's way. All the calls you think were questionable went Georgia's way. The interference in the end zone--which every Georgia player, coach, and fan thought was uncatchable--went our way. The personal foul penalty on McCarron--after an incomplete third down pass in the end zone--went our way. The (correct) no-call on the Dial hit on Murray went our way. No, this was a well-called game as games go.
FTFY.
 

KrAzY3

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Yea lets have all the reviewed calls conclusions divided equally between both teams no matter what....:rolleyes:
I'm saying there's a problem when you ultimately end up being wrong 75% of the time.
Lot of confirmation bias here. All the calls didn't go Georgia's way. All the calls you think were questionable went Georgia's way. The interference in the end zone--which every Georgia player, coach, and fan thought was uncatchable--went our way. The personal foul penalty on McElroy--after an incomplete third down pass in the end zone--went our way. The (correct) no-call on the Dial hit on Murray went our way. No, this was a well-called game as games go.
The interference in the end zone was more than blatant. You can't generalize on what the fans thought either. That's absurd. I'd point out that most balls are uncatchable if a guy is yanking you to the ground. I don't think that play was reviewed though. I'm not 100% sure if the Lacy play was reviewed but I thought it was. I was talking about reviews...

If you want to just open it up to every call on the field, we'll start with a couple no calls on holds and work our way up from there. That's not at all the point I was making. I wasn't commenting on how the entire officiating game was handled, but explaining why someone of were upset with how replays and goal line situations were handled. What replay went in favor of Alabama? What close end zone play went in favor of Alabama? The answer as far as I know is 0, and that's the point!
 

KrAzY3

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No, the point is to get the calls right. Out of the four your mentioned, I think they got 1 wrong. Is 75% a good track record? Up for debate. I don't think the calls were.
So, you're telling me that Lacy didn't break the plane with the ball? Is that what you're telling all of us? On top of that, you're also telling me that you are certain Gurley's knee wasn't down? I'm not talking about replay rules, I'm talking about what actually happened.

I'm not sure how an open minded person could see the evidence we've seen and be on that side of both. That picture was lying huh?
 

CmdrThor

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We both know how pass interference works. The guy throwing the flag does not throw it if he sees the pass is tipped or anything that negates pass interference. His job is not to throw the flag if there is contact, it is to throw the flag if there is pass interference. He did, yes he was overruled but the notion that he was only looking for contact is misleading. He was looking for a legitimate pass interference call, which he saw and threw the flag on.
You should read an official's mechanics manual. The deep judge's responsibility is to watch the action on the receiver. He needs to know in general when the ball is in the air so he knows whether a penalty is holding or pass interference, but he should NOT be watching the ball to see whether it gets tipped. That is primarily the umpire's job once a pass is away. If the deep judge is watching the ball, he will not see the action between the receiver and the defender. There is nothing wrong with dropping a flag and picking it back up. If the deep judge happens to see the umpire's tipped ball signal, he can choose to not drop the flag, but if he doesn't see that his responsibility is to call what he sees.

The mechanics the officials use are designed to get the call right as close to 100% as humanly possible. It's nice to look good at the same time (not signaling touchdown then taking it away, not picking up flags, etc) but getting it right is the most important thing.

Now, was the ball actually tipped? Didn't look like it to me, wish they would have reviewed, and wish our coaches would have challenged since it seemed they were not reviewing. Also wish coach would have taken a time out on the last drive of the 2nd quarter. However I'm extremely happy for all of the other excellent decisions by the coaches and outstanding play by the players that lead to our victory.
 

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