The perception of college football vs. the NFL

HartselleTider

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I talk to a lot of people (particularly from the northeast part of the country) who always say that they don't like college football because it's "corrupt", and much prefer the NFL to it. Why do people from that section of the country have that perception?

Do they not think that the NFL is corrupt? I think anytime you have millions or billions of dollars at stake in anything, there's going to be a certain level of corruption. Whether it's things like Spygate, etc.

Even in MLB where most of the statistics are tainted because of steroids recently.

My question is, why do so many people from the northeast have the perception of college football that they do? There's no question that college football has never been snow white, but it's as if these people don't understand what college football is all about.
 

REBELZED

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They say those things because college teams from the Northeast have been largely irrelevant for 10+ years
 
They say those things because college teams from the Northeast have been largely irrelevant for 10+ years
That's a big part. In the southern states/towns, college teams are usually the only show around (It's changed recently, though, with the NFL's move into the region). Up north, though, college teams were just another option along with the professional teams in multiple leagues. They just don't pay attention to the college game as much as people down here do. (The same can be said about a lot of people in the south not paying attention to the NFL)
 

selmaborntidefan

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They can blame themselves.

Sports in this country - professional anyway - were once confined to north of the Mason-Dixon line with St Louis the western border. They viewed the South as primitive and racist & while nobody should deny the reality of the latter, it's not like the Northeast was better. The World Series began after baseball had been around about 25 years in 1903 but no blacks were allowed to play until 1947. I'm just pointing out the failure to expand South cannot justifiably be racism since that was institutionalized in all sports.

NFL was their baby as well. You have to remember that by the time Atlanta got an NFL team, Alabama had won 3 titles the previous 5 years. Lewis Grizzard (UGA, 1968) theorized that the Southern male was emasculated by being the only American to ever lose a war (pre-Vietnam) and that this gave him additional pride to fight for state superiority.

Also - how many teams in the NE have been national powers for any period of time since the Ivy League pulled back? Basically Penn State was like Boise from 1968-78. That loss to Alabama in 79 put them on the map. The only other "power" for the NE was Notre Dame due to heavy Catholic populations in CT, Mass, and MD.

Once they shrunk & the world grew nature took care of the rest.
 
They can blame themselves.

Sports in this country - professional anyway - were once confined to north of the Mason-Dixon line with St Louis the western border. They viewed the South as primitive and racist & while nobody should deny the reality of the latter, it's not like the Northeast was better. The World Series began after baseball had been around about 25 years in 1903 but no blacks were allowed to play until 1947. I'm just pointing out the failure to expand South cannot justifiably be racism since that was institutionalized in all sports.

NFL was their baby as well. You have to remember that by the time Atlanta got an NFL team, Alabama had won 3 titles the previous 5 years. Lewis Grizzard (UGA, 1968) theorized that the Southern male was emasculated by being the only American to ever lose a war (pre-Vietnam) and that this gave him additional pride to fight for state superiority.

Also - how many teams in the NE have been national powers for any period of time since the Ivy League pulled back? Basically Penn State was like Boise from 1968-78. That loss to Alabama in 79 put them on the map. The only other "power" for the NE was Notre Dame due to heavy Catholic populations in CT, Mass, and MD.

Once they shrunk & the world grew nature took care of the rest.
In regards to the NFL, I do remember reading how the Washington Redskins used to be considered the "southern" team and fought integration in the league tooth and nail.
 

Nolan

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Another thing I've noticed is a double standard when it comes to low scoring games. In the NFL its a defensive gem and mentioned in passing, while in college its ugly and talked about for months...like 9-6 or 21-0.
 

crimsonboy

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We humans are a funny bunch. We tend to attribute to others our own traits. Consider a con artist ever trusting anyone else. How about a forger accepting payment in the form of a check.

Well, there you have it. Think Ohio State, Penn State or even Michigan (including the Fab Five in Basketball) and you can understand why they consider college football to be a corrupt sport.
 

Bamabuzzard

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I'll play a bit of devil's advocate on this and also express some of my feelings on the situation as well. I think first and foremost the rest of the country (outside of SEC country) has grown tired of the dominance of the SEC. Let's face it, it's gotten to the point where the experts, analysts etc. from year to year say the SEC is the best conference from top to bottom without really putting any form of measuring stick on it. It's just now assumed. And right or wrong, in this day and age of college football where on any given saturday any team can be beat. People have become quite angry that it is just assumed we have the best conference each year. Especially seeing how Utah drummed us in the Sugar Bowl in 2008. BTW, no one cares (except Bama fans) as to our circumstances going into that game just like we don't want to hear nor do we care about the "issues" LSU supposedly had going into the NCG this year. Then you've got the Boise St's of the world who routinely, when lined up against teams from the AQ conferences, beat them.

Can we honestly say that over the last 8 years (2003-present) the SEC has been the best conference each year from top to bottom? If so then what are "we" using as a measuring stick to prove it? Because I can't tell you how many times PAC-12 fans throw out their bowl record against SEC teams. It doesn't point to the SEC ALWAYS being the best conference every year. I think that a lot of fans feel that it's to a point where the SEC has been given a permanent "benefit of the doubt" card without it ever really being looked at each year to see if it is still valid. And I can see their point to an extent.

Personally, being a former athlete, I want to settle it on the field. I'd rather line up and show you I'm better than you (even if I do play a higher quality competition during the year) than us sit here and "talk about it". But that's just me. That way when I wax your butt on the field there's nothing left to talk about other than I'm better than you.
 

KrimsonNinja

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I was born in the south but grew up in the north and the north heavily favored the NFL. There were some college football fans, either pulling for ND, Louisville or Kentucky. The town itself was a basketball town. So.....yeah.

My cousin, born and raised in the north, is actually an auburn fan. Not quite sure how that happened.
 

Bamabuzzard

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Another thing I've noticed is a double standard when it comes to low scoring games. In the NFL its a defensive gem and mentioned in passing, while in college its ugly and talked about for months...like 9-6 or 21-0.
It's starting to get that way in the NFL as well. I can't tell you how many people I've heard say the Superbowl was "boring". I attribute this to the video game generation. We have associated "quality" football with both teams scoring a lot of points without ever considering the role defenses play in the equation. We think what "we" see on the video game is how it is in "real life" on the field. And it's not.
 

HartselleTider

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They say those things because college teams from the Northeast have been largely irrelevant for 10+ years

I tend to agree with this except for one thing... some of these people are die hard fans of NFL teams like the Miami Dolphins, etc. who haven't been relevant in 30 some odd years or so.

From my experience, die hard college football fans and die hard NFL fans are just flat out two completely different types of fanbases in general.

I think die hard college football fans have a distinct appreciation for the GAME of football itself. Whereas die hard NFL fans don't seem to appreciate the actual game of football. They only appreciate whether the overpaid divas whose jerseys they bought are getting hyped up in the media as much as the overpaid divas from their "rivals".

Which brings me to my next point. Rivalries in the NFL do not exist anymore in my opinion. I think rivalries in the NFL died with the inception of free agency. When lifelong Packers like Brett Favre are wearing Minnesota Viking jerseys..... lifelong Dolphins like Jason Taylor are playing for the New York Jets.... Thurman Thomas in a Dolphins uniform... Emmitt Smith in an Arizona Cardinal jersey... one of the greatest Raiders of all time Marcus Allen playing for the Kansas City Chiefs, etc...

... the term "rivals" just holds no water for me. It's about money. Loyalty in professional sports only goes to whoever is going to pay them the money.

NFL football is just so watered down compared to college football in my opinion. The caliber of players may be superior, but that doesn't mean the product on the field is.
 

HartselleTider

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It's starting to get that way in the NFL as well. I can't tell you how many people I've heard say the Superbowl was "boring". I attribute this to the video game generation. We have associated "quality" football with both teams scoring a lot of points without ever considering the role defenses play in the equation. We think what "we" see on the video game is how it is in "real life" on the field. And it's not.

I completely agree with you here. Video games have made people think that's how football is played in real life. Not to mention "fantasy football". Everything is driven by statistics. I think this generation has lost sight of the fact that physicality and attitude play a huge part in the game of football, and is a necessary to play proper defense.

If many of these people were allowed to strap on some shoulder pads and put in a mouthpiece for the first time in their lives.... they'd quickly develope a whole new understanding of what the game of football is all about in it's simplest form.
 
Going to counter some of this:

From my experience, die hard college football fans and die hard NFL fans are just flat out two completely different types of fanbases in general.

I think die hard college football fans have a distinct appreciation for the GAME of football itself. Whereas die hard NFL fans don't seem to appreciate the actual game of football. They only appreciate whether the overpaid divas whose jerseys they bought are getting hyped up in the media as much as the overpaid divas from their "rivals".
Really? What level of football has a huge chunk of its fanbase living on the whims of high school players and then losing their minds when said players pick a school that isn't the one they support? I'm a die hard NFL fan and appreciate the game of football, which is why I don't play fantasy football or get caught up with individual players. Both college and the NFL have idiot fans... don't try and make it out that college fans are so much purer and noble in their intentions than NFL fans.

Which brings me to my next point. Rivalries in the NFL do not exist anymore in my opinion. I think rivalries in the NFL died with the inception of free agency. When lifelong Packers like Brett Favre are wearing Minnesota Viking jerseys..... lifelong Dolphins like Jason Taylor are playing for the New York Jets.... Thurman Thomas in a Dolphins uniform... Emmitt Smith in an Arizona Cardinal jersey... one of the greatest Raiders of all time Marcus Allen playing for the Kansas City Chiefs, etc...
I'm guessing you have watched a Jets/Patriots, Bears/Packers, Colts/Patriots, Steelers/Ravens, or any NFC East game recently. Heck, I'd even throw the Giants/Patriots in there as a rivalry now. Free agency didn't kill team vs. team rivalries (Besides, why should a player be bound to a team for basically his entire career?)

... the term "rivals" just holds no water for me. It's about money. Loyalty in professional sports only goes to whoever is going to pay them the money.
It's a business. What do you expect?

NFL football is just so watered down compared to college football in my opinion. The caliber of players may be superior, but that doesn't mean the product on the field is.
Please tell me how it is watered down? I'd like specific examples. The NFL is a copycat league with 32 teams as opposed to 120. The play on the field is naturally going to look similar.
 
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HartselleTider

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Going to counter some of this:



Really? What level of football has a huge chunk of its fanbase living on the whims of high school players and then losing their minds when said players pick a school that isn't the one they support? I'm a die hard NFL fan and appreciate the game of football, which is why I don't play fantasy football or get caught up with individual players. Both college and the NFL have idiot fans... don't try and make it out that college fans are so much purer and noble in their intentions than NFL fans.



I'm guessing you have watched a Jets/Patriots, Bears/Packers, Colts/Patriots, or Steelers/Ravens game recently. Heck, I'd even throw the Giants/Patriots in there as a rivalry now.



It's a business. What do you expect?



Please tell me how it is watered down? I'd like specific examples. The NFL is a copycat league with 32 teams as opposed to 120. The play on the field is naturally going to look similar.


You may not necessarily represent the majority of the NFL fanbase. But the fact is, the NFL's insane popularity nowdays has watered down fanbases. They've expanded to a point where a large percentage of the fanbase of ANY NFL team don't really understand the game as much as they think. They can't even have a conversation about football if it doesn't revolve around statistics. (see Fantasy Football)

Every University has fans that have never attended the school. However, I think the large majority of a school's fanbase has some sort of personal tie to the University itself. Unlike fans of professional sports. Obviously, if you're a Packers fan or some team that has a ton of tradition and history, being a fan of that team is a family tradition and means much more. But that's simply not the case most of the time.

The NFL is a business, and it's a business FIRST... a sport second. Which waters it down from the way it used to be. Guys used to play professional football because it's how they paid their bills and raised a family. The outrageous contracts have watered down the sport for anybody that's willing to step back and take a serious look at it.

None of those rivalries you point out can measure up to a hill of beans compared to college football rivalries. The rivalries in college football are real. They're based off legitimate hatred in some instances that go back 100+ years.

None of the players off any of those teams care one iota about that rivalry if the other team offers them the money their looking for. It's just the way it is.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Free agency is something of a valid point in both MLB and NFL. However, there's still a core that remains on a dynasty or near dynasty. Let's also be honest - the weather turns bad there much earlier most years. Not a problem in a dome but who really wants to sit in snow at Happy Valley in November to see a pair of 4-loss teams competing for the Independence Bowl play?

As far as SEC dominance, that thought has been out there for 50 years. SEC fans were proclaiming it even in 2000 when the league was a little below par. PAC 12 fans can cite bowl records but seriously - drop the 2011 BCS title game & when was the last SEC-West Coast bowl showdown?

Had time to check? The 1989 Freedom Bowl pitting a Washington Huskies team whose sophomores would win the 1991 title against a Florida team with an interim coach facing a hard probation.

That's a FAIR assessment game? True, Florida's same sophomores wonthe 1991 SEC title, but their program was in disarray. And reciting bowl stats from the 1980s to prove superiority today is as insane as saying since Alabama mauled UCLA in 1976, that proves the SEC of 2011 is better.

Also - MOST of the PAC 10 wins in the last decade came courtesy of one team - USC.

While I understand the concern & think to an extent it is overstated, if we're going to use a small sample size & CURRENT games:

Second best SEC team destroyed PAC 12 champ.

Any questions? Game was a killing with artificially close score.
 
You may not necessarily represent the majority of the NFL fanbase. But the fact is, the NFL's insane popularity nowdays has watered down fanbases. They've expanded to a point where a large percentage of the fanbase of ANY NFL team don't really understand the game as much as they think. They can't even have a conversation about football if it doesn't revolve around statistics. (see Fantasy Football)
The same can easily be said about college fans, and if you need proof... read threads on this board when it comes to how our offense plays at times. Also check out a gameday thread.

Every University has fans that have never attended the school. However, I think the large majority of a school's fanbase has some sort of personal tie to the University itself. Unlike fans of professional sports. Obviously, if you're a Packers fan or some team that has a ton of tradition and history, being a fan of that team is a family tradition and means much more. But that's simply not the case most of the time.
I don't have personal ties to the Patriots so I can't claim that (I picked them because they are an extremely well run organization with a top notch head coach), but still... a large chunk of a fanbase is personally tied to a team through geography. If you grow up in an NFL city, you're likely to be a fan of that team. The same goes for growing up near a college team.

The NFL is a business, and it's a business FIRST... a sport second. Which waters it down from the way it used to be. Guys used to play professional football because it's how they paid their bills and raised a family. The outrageous contracts have watered down the sport for anybody that's willing to step back and take a serious look at it.
Why are the contracts so outrageous? Do you have a personal problem with people making that level of money? Did you watch the Namath documentary? If so, what were your thoughts of Coach Bryant telling him to ask for $200,000 right out of college when that was a ridiculous price? You do realize most (not all, but most) college players are playing the sport strictly to get into the NFL. Not for the love of the game or any other reason. It's to make it to the league and get a payday. What's wrong with that?

None of those rivalries you point out can measure up to a hill of beans compared to college football rivalries. The rivalries in college football are real. They're based off legitimate hatred in some instances that go back 100+ years.
Again, to pro-fans... most college rivalries don't mean jack. I'm sure the TV ratings of those games compared to college rivalry games would tell an interesting story as well. Also, if you don't think some NFL rivalries aren't based on legit hatred, you're nuts.

None of the players off any of those teams care one iota about that rivalry if the other team offers them the money their looking for. It's just the way it is.
If you worked for a company and their rival offered you a lot more money to come to them, what would your thoughts be about that rivalry?
 

Bamabuzzard

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While I understand the concern & think to an extent it is overstated, if we're going to use a small sample size & CURRENT games:

Second best SEC team destroyed PAC 12 champ.

Any questions? Game was a killing with artificially close score
.
Keep in mind I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here. So are we suppose to take that one game and going forward say from year to year, before any games are played, that the SEC is the best conference? That would beg the question "What will it take for the SEC not to be considered the best conference?" Not win the BCS title? If that's the case then that is a very high standard. A conference could very well be th best conference from top to bottom and not win the BCS title that year. Like I said earlier, I think there is some merit to what the haters are saying. And they do have some games to point to say "Hey guys, you might not be the best conference EVERY YEAR." There are so many teams in college football, even just taking into account the AQ conferences, that it will always be subjective as to who has the best conference. Because there's no way to line enough teams up consistently against each other to make a credible assessment.
 

Ole Man Dan

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The ultimate reason folks in the North East prefer the NFL, is their college teams are sub standard.
Poor Offense, Poor Defense = Teams that loose to SEC teams.

Folks up North complain of college football corruption.
Based on what? Penn State's sex Scandal/coverup,
or Ohio State's Tattoo gate, money scandal?

Face it... college football in the North East is 'Mired in Mediocrity'.


There's a lot of 'The Pot Calling the Kettle Black' going on in the North East.
 
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HartselleTider

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The same can easily be said about college fans, and if you need proof... read threads on this board when it comes to how our offense plays at times. Also check out a gameday thread.



I don't have personal ties to the Patriots so I can't claim that (I picked them because they are an extremely well run organization with a top notch head coach), but still... a large chunk of a fanbase is personally tied to a team through geography. If you grow up in an NFL city, you're likely to be a fan of that team. The same goes for growing up near a college team.



Why are the contracts so outrageous? Do you have a personal problem with people making that level of money? Did you watch the Namath documentary? If so, what were your thoughts of Coach Bryant telling him to ask for $200,000 right out of college when that was a ridiculous price? You do realize most (not all, but most) college players are playing the sport strictly to get into the NFL. Not for the love of the game or any other reason. It's to make it to the league and get a payday. What's wrong with that?



Again, to pro-fans... most college rivalries don't mean jack. I'm sure the TV ratings of those games compared to college rivalry games would tell an interesting story as well. Also, if you don't think some NFL rivalries aren't based on legit hatred, you're nuts.



If you worked for a company and their rival offered you a lot more money to come to them, what would your thoughts be about that rivalry?


All you're doing is taking offense to everything I say because you're an NFL fan. I didn't mean to offend you.

I don't have any problem with NFL players taking whatever anybody is willing to pay them, that's not my point. It's not personal. Heck, we'd all take the money. I just think it waters down the league. You have guys holding out for more money all the time because they think they're worth more, even when they already have more than they can spend. The problem is, after they've held out and get their money (Chris Johnson, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Albert Haynesworth, etc., etc. for example) they play like crap.

A coach can bench a player for underperforming or not practicing hard in college or high school, NFL coaches can't do that. The owner is paying that player big time money for him to be on the field and selling tickets, it doesn't matter how big of a pain in the butt the player is, or if he even deserves to be out there.

College rivalries are simply more storied, with more tradition, and have a more legitimate make-up. That's not opinion, that's just the way it is. College football has been around a lot longer than the NFL has. Rivalries and tradition is what makes college football what it is. I think you can ask any player or coach in the NFL and 99% will tell you that college rivalries are simply much better than NFL rivalries.

DeMeco Ryans said it best a couple years ago when Phil Simms asked him before Houston played Dallas if he hated the Cowboys. "No I don't hate the Cowboys". Ryans said, "I hate Auburn".

That about sums it up. You play "rivalries" in the NFL. You LIVE rivalries in college football. It's part of who you are, and no amount of money will ever change it.
 

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