Booth Review on 2nd Quarter Fumble

Hankster2

All-SEC
Jan 18, 2006
1,025
2
57
in a house
I didn't find the game to be any worse officiated than the average game but I think the refs got caught with their pants down on this play.

Did anyone notice the exchange between the officials after the ump announced that the replay concluded that the ruling on the field should stand?

Series of events as I watched:
1. Umpire clearly announced first down and signaled for Alabama's ball. The ball was marked where Kirkpatrick was down, not where the PS defender recovered it.
2. Ump announces play is under review (almost immediately).
3. Review... then the ump announces the ruling on the field stands and it's Penn State ball.
4. Everyone including the entire stadium, the refs, Saban, and the announcers are confused as to who's ball it is.
5. This is where things got interesting: The camera cuts to a huddle between 3 refs. The ump points at the spot and in Penn State's direction as if he's explaining his interpretation of the call (pure speculation). They're discussing something then two walk away then the younger ref walks back to the ump and because he's facing the camera you can make out most of what he said. I'm by no means a lip reader but to me these words are pretty easy to make out.

Younger ref: "<something something> Alabama's ball on the replay." (all the while pointing over his shoulder with his thumb towards the replay booth.)
Umpire: <older ref says something but his mouth isn't visible>
Younger ref (quite clearly and nodding his head):"No it wasn't."
Then the younger ref backs away staring down the ump with a very disapproving look on his face.

No black helicopters, just some slight incompetence. I'm betting dollars to doughnuts that the ref transferred the wrong ruling on the field to the replay booth, which is strange because he was the one who made the field ruling.

Unfortunately we only get explanations on these communication breakdowns when the game is close. I'd really love more visibility into this kind of stuff. As it is I think everyone will have to stay confused as to what happened.
 

Krymsonman

Hall of Fame
Sep 1, 2009
5,596
3,385
187
River Ridge, LA
I didn't find the game to be any worse officiated than the average game but I think the refs got caught with their pants down on this play.

Did anyone notice the exchange between the officials after the ump announced that the replay concluded that the ruling on the field should stand?

Series of events as I watched:
1. Umpire clearly announced first down and signaled for Alabama's ball. The ball was marked where Kirkpatrick was down, not where the PS defender recovered it.
2. Ump announces play is under review (almost immediately).
3. Review... then the ump announces the ruling on the field stands and it's Penn State ball.
4. Everyone including the entire stadium, the refs, Saban, and the announcers are confused as to who's ball it is.
5. This is where things got interesting: The camera cuts to a huddle between 3 refs. The ump points at the spot and in Penn State's direction as if he's explaining his interpretation of the call (pure speculation). They're discussing something then two walk away then the younger ref walks back to the ump and because he's facing the camera you can make out most of what he said. I'm by no means a lip reader but to me these words are pretty easy to make out.

Younger ref: "<something something> Alabama's ball on the replay." (all the while pointing over his shoulder with his thumb towards the replay booth.)
Umpire: <older ref says something but his mouth isn't visible>
Younger ref (quite clearly and nodding his head):"No it wasn't."
Then the younger ref backs away staring down the ump with a very disapproving look on his face.

No black helicopters, just some slight incompetence. I'm betting dollars to doughnuts that the ref transferred the wrong ruling on the field to the replay booth, which is strange because he was the one who made the field ruling.

Unfortunately we only get explanations on these communication breakdowns when the game is close. I'd really love more visibility into this kind of stuff. As it is I think everyone will have to stay confused as to what happened.

I was wondering about that too. The ref seemed to rule on the field, (although not very demonstrative), that is was BAMA's ball at about the 3 yard line, but then went right to a review I guess to sort the whole thing out. The replay clearly showed Kirkpatrick scooping at the ball, then picking it up securely, then going down. Once he was down the ball popped out, but once you hit the ground you are down. I think the old big ten ref forgot who he said had the ball, so he gave it to Penn State. From my view, this was a pretty brutal blown call. I'm just glad it didn't hurt us.

Krymsonman
 

Krymsonman

Hall of Fame
Sep 1, 2009
5,596
3,385
187
River Ridge, LA
I didn't find the game to be any worse officiated than the average game but I think the refs got caught with their pants down on this play.

Did anyone notice the exchange between the officials after the ump announced that the replay concluded that the ruling on the field should stand?

Series of events as I watched:
1. Umpire clearly announced first down and signaled for Alabama's ball. The ball was marked where Kirkpatrick was down, not where the PS defender recovered it.
2. Ump announces play is under review (almost immediately).
3. Review... then the ump announces the ruling on the field stands and it's Penn State ball.
4. Everyone including the entire stadium, the refs, Saban, and the announcers are confused as to who's ball it is.
5. This is where things got interesting: The camera cuts to a huddle between 3 refs. The ump points at the spot and in Penn State's direction as if he's explaining his interpretation of the call (pure speculation). They're discussing something then two walk away then the younger ref walks back to the ump and because he's facing the camera you can make out most of what he said. I'm by no means a lip reader but to me these words are pretty easy to make out.

Younger ref: "<something something> Alabama's ball on the replay." (all the while pointing over his shoulder with his thumb towards the replay booth.)
Umpire: <older ref says something but his mouth isn't visible>
Younger ref (quite clearly and nodding his head):"No it wasn't."
Then the younger ref backs away staring down the ump with a very disapproving look on his face.

No black helicopters, just some slight incompetence. I'm betting dollars to doughnuts that the ref transferred the wrong ruling on the field to the replay booth, which is strange because he was the one who made the field ruling.

Unfortunately we only get explanations on these communication breakdowns when the game is close. I'd really love more visibility into this kind of stuff. As it is I think everyone will have to stay confused as to what happened.

On, and did you notice, we got our first holding call tonight in I can't remember how many quarters. At least on that one I couldn't complain much. Krymsonman
 

Hankster2

All-SEC
Jan 18, 2006
1,025
2
57
in a house
The upsetting part is that it was less "bad call" and more just "confusion/incompetence". It seemed like once the ump made his mistake he just stuck to his guns because both teams were already lined up. He was clearly being confronted and explaining himself to the other refs.

Also if you make a call on the field and announce it, that should be the call. If you mis-announced the call on the field (AND pointed in the wrong direction AND spotted the ball in the wrong spot AND marked the wrong player down) then announce that. If you gave the wrong ruling to the replay booth then re-communicate that the the booth. Don't leave the teams and fans in the dark and don't stick to your mistake once it's uncovered.
 

Krymsonman

Hall of Fame
Sep 1, 2009
5,596
3,385
187
River Ridge, LA
The upsetting part is that it was less "bad call" and more just "confusion/incompetence". It seemed like once the ump made his mistake he just stuck to his guns because both teams were already lined up. He was clearly being confronted and explaining himself to the other refs.

Also if you make a call on the field and announce it, that should be the call. If you mis-announced the call on the field (AND pointed in the wrong direction AND spotted the ball in the wrong spot AND marked the wrong player down) then announce that. If you gave the wrong ruling to the replay booth then re-communicate that the the booth. Don't leave the teams and fans in the dark and don't stick to your mistake once it's uncovered.

I think in this day and age most people understand the refs are human. All we want is for them to get the call right. If you made a mistake, fine, you have replay and can fix it. This guy was so confused he didn't want to listen to anyone. But wouldn't someone in the replay booth go "Hey BAMA actually recovered the ball and he was down at the 3 yard line". I just want them to get it right.

Also, do you think Saban will have the DB's work a little more on hanging on to the ball.

Krymsonman
 

Bhammer

1st Team
Jan 4, 2007
670
86
52
Birmingham
It may very well have been a product of my blatant homerism, but the refs seemed to give us several unfavorable spots as well. I noticed several poor spots to go along with Trent's and GMac's seemng first down runs that were spotted short of the marker.
 

VegasTide

All-SEC
Dec 18, 2009
1,056
0
0
Las Vegas, NV
It may very well have been a product of my blatant homerism, but the refs seemed to give us several unfavorable spots as well. I noticed several poor spots to go along with Trent's and GMac's seemng first down runs that were spotted short of the marker.
Ya, in the end it doesn't matter so much because we owned that game, but the spots were clearly off... and its not homerism (although I suffer from the same affliction).
 

rollntider

All-SEC
Jun 10, 2001
1,131
2
0
Bessemer AL 35023
www.blindsideblitz.com
It may very well have been a product of my blatant homerism, but the refs seemed to give us several unfavorable spots as well. I noticed several poor spots to go along with Trent's and GMac's seemng first down runs that were spotted short of the marker.
You werent the only one, my Sis in law, Auburn fan hates Bama with a passion was laughin and saying "They are screwin' you guys"

Yeah we had to over come the refs.
 

Black Warrior

Suspended
Mar 30, 2010
2,236
2
0
I noticed all of the above as well. Aren't these officials the same ones that were refereeing that high school game where Jack Nicklaus's son got ejected.
Some pretty poor calling if you ask me.
And yeah, on the fumble recovery and subsequent return, the ref on the field did signal first down Alabama at the 3 yd line. Then the head ref says the ruling on the field stands and gives Penn State the ball. Absolutely bonehead officiating.
I didn't see the spot on the McElroy play that was spoken of but I did notice the spot on the run on the sideline by Trent. The Ref picked up the ball and put it back a half a yard short of the marker, when he clearly seemed to go out right on the marker.
And we thought SEC refs sucked.....
 
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BFANLC

Suspended
Nov 25, 2005
3,077
0
0
53
In a dream world
You werent the only one, my Sis in law, Auburn fan hates Bama with a passion was laughin and saying "They are screwin' you guys"

Yeah we had to over come the refs.
Some,very few, penn st fans on other boards were saying we were holding on every play.So its all your point of view.
 

CrimsonBleedRed

All-American
Nov 24, 2007
2,184
0
0
United States
At the end of the day, when two teams from difference conferences play, the referees needs to be from a neutral conference. In the SEC .v. Big 10, the refs must be from say the ACC/Big12, etc, etc, if for nothing else eliminate the possibility of homerism towards your conference team.

And yes, I just watch the segment of the game, and the younger ref clearly was disapproving of the Head Ump decision. I would even venture a guess that the younger umpire made his disapproval of the call known to the head ump after the game. I also wouldn't mind if we hear the young ref mention the blatant miss call to Alabama and/or SEC official.
 

squalor

1st Team
Feb 21, 2000
363
0
0
Redneck Riviera
To be fair, they missed a hold (arm tackle) committed by DJ Fluker. Nothing they did changed the outcome of the game, it only limited the embarrassment.
 

HCT

New Member
Aug 31, 2010
16
0
0
That was a bit annoying...wasted breath on that recovery and the announcement. Yay Alabama recovers! Yay Alabama wins the review! Ya- what? Penn State got the ball? :confused:
 

Bamaman-n-KS

3rd Team
May 28, 2009
242
0
0
Mosul, Iraq
We found this call, while confusing as all get out, actually worked in UA's favor. Did anyone notice we we're WAY over the line of scrimage before the ball was snapped? I'll take losing the ball and putting them back 60 yards over an incrochment (sp) penalty that far into our territory.
 

hollisx4

1st Team
Aug 29, 2005
907
1
37
56
Columbiana, AL.
And yes, I just watch the segment of the game, and the younger ref clearly was disapproving of the Head Ump decision. I would even venture a guess that the younger umpire made his disapproval of the call known to the head ump after the game. I also wouldn't mind if we hear the young ref mention the blatant miss call to Alabama and/or SEC official.
Unfortunately if he did, he might not ever get to be a referee anymore...
 

TommyMac

Hall of Fame
Apr 24, 2001
14,040
33
0
83
Mobile, Alabama
The bad spots were particularly disturbing to me. Bad spots occur in every game because of the speed of the game and because the officials are human too, but shouldn't they even out? They didn't in this game.
 

Bama Reb

Suspended
Nov 2, 2005
14,446
0
0
On the lake and in the woods, AL
At the end of the day, when two teams from difference conferences play, the referees needs to be from a neutral conference. In the SEC .v. Big 10, the refs must be from say the ACC/Big12, etc, etc, if for nothing else eliminate the possibility of homerism towards your conference team.

And yes, I just watch the segment of the game, and the younger ref clearly was disapproving of the Head Ump decision. I would even venture a guess that the younger umpire made his disapproval of the call known to the head ump after the game. I also wouldn't mind if we hear the young ref mention the blatant miss call to Alabama and/or SEC official.
Those were Big 10 refs, but as you say, they should have been from a neutral conference. The same is true for our game in Happy Valley next year, where we are told that those refs will be from the SEC. That doesn't mitigate or excuse the poor job this crew did. They should be ashamed of themselves. If I expressed my true opinion, I'd say that this crew, or at least a couple of them, had a real 'interest' in the outcome of the game.
It seems kind of funny though, that the game was so one-sided that they couldn't win even with the ref's help.
 
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