So, we can't criticize the coaching staff?

Zona said:

I think Dax has done a heck of a job with his on-field coaching with both the hitters and pitchers. I believe we could have gotten better options than Andy Phillips, though

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Holy cow... I agree with this... :biggrin2:

JoJoforHeisman said:

That's great news. Exactly the type of player we need - a polished middle infielder who can hit. Not to mention that he's from a junior college program that has sent us some pretty solid players over the years (Paul Phillips, David Tidwell, Brian Reed, Travis Garner, Antonio Bostic)

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I guess I should change my stance on JUCOs to just not signing any from Shelton anymore. He probably won't be hitting that many homers here, but if you can hit, you can hit anywhere once you make the necessary adjustments.

Zona said:

JUCOs use the old bats, so he won't be hitting .430 with all those home runs here. But, it is good to see us sign another middle infielder! What's that make about 3 in a 4-year span?

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JUCO's use the BBCOR bat just like DI, the only program not using BBCOR bats this year is High School baseball and some states went to BBCOR this year as well like California.

I have heard rumors that DII will go all wood bats in 2 years.

dddice said:

JUCO's use the BBCOR bat just like DI, the only program not using BBCOR bats this year is High School baseball and some states went to BBCOR this year as well like California.

I have heard rumors that DII will go all wood bats in 2 years.

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Over here in GA BBCOR is being used at most high schools. If they ordered a new bat (as most did (several bats at a time)) most ordered BBCOR and not BESR.

I just don't see the all wooden thing happening. First of all they don't last as long if not used correctly, second they are pretty expensive for a bat that might not last 10 swings. Now, I understand that there are sponsors, but how many wooden bat sponsors are there?

I think it is difficult to lay all the blame with the staff. Thursday night, we hit every pitcher Tennessee used. We had 13 legitimate hits. Something happened Saturday though. Not a single player looked good at the plate. The hits we had were mainly bloopers. How can the players go from hitting the ball really hard, to really out if sync that quickly. Andy Phillips may be a very good hitting coach, but he has really had his hands full this year. How many teams do you see with multiple hitters that are hitting below .200. Some responsibility should lie with the coaching staff, but you also need to look at the players, and see how much help they need to get up to par with most other programs. Unless you are very talented, you cannot learn to hit overnight. The one thing I thought was odd Saturday was we used a pinch hitter that had 1 hit all season in the ninth inning, when we had Josh Rosecrans on the bench. I did think at the moment that Rosecrans would have been a better choice. However not being an insider, there may have been a reason to not use him.

We need more performances like Thursday, and lees like Saturday.

There is still plenty of time, but we need to place some urgency on getting things fixed.

RTR

Bama Baseball 1 said:

The one thing I thought was odd Saturday was we used a pinch hitter that had 1 hit all season in the ninth inning, when we had Josh Rosecrans on the bench. I did think at the moment that Rosecrans would have been a better choice. However not being an insider, there may have been a reason to not use him.

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That ranked up there with the decision to have Brett Whitaker (who remains 0-for-the season) hit cleanup for the Sunday game at Ole Miss.

baseballfanatic said:

I guess I should change my stance on JUCOs to just not signing any from Shelton anymore.

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Looking back over the past few years, somewhat surprisingly it’s only been fairly recently that the program has been inundated with Shelton transfers. Matt Downs and Clay Jones are far and away the best of the lot. Beyond those two, you’ve got some others who have contributed, to varying degrees. Jonathan Smart has really impressed this season after two seasons of injury and ineffectiveness. Brett Whitaker and David Kindred have had their moments. The list of disappointments and/or non-factors is a little longer. John David Smelser started twelve games, got hurt, and became a preacher. Robert Phares pitched one season, got shelled, and quit before his senior year. Adam Scott’s career was undone by his inability to keep the ball in the park. Cal Tinsley saw some action in a utility role and as a pinch runner, hitting .262/.318/.361 as a senior. Patrick Kelly logged a few innings out of the pen in his two season and posted a 5.31 ERA. Patrick Nappi was on the roster for two years, never saw the field, and wound up at Division II Harding University.

Shelton State transfers 2006-2011:
2011
Jonathan Smart LHP
Brett Whitaker RHP
David Kindred DH

2010
Clay Jones 1B
David Kindred DH
Adam Scott RHP
Jonathan Smart LHP
John David Smelser UT
Cal Tinsley UT
Brett Whitaker RHP

2009
Clay Jones 1B
Adam Scott RHP
Jonathan Smart LHP
Cal Tinsley UT

2008
Robert Phares RHP
Patrick Nappi RHP

2007
Patrick Kelly RHP

2006
Matt Downs 3B
Patrick Kelly RHP

JoJoforHeisman said:

Looking back over the past few years, somewhat surprisingly it’s only been fairly recently that the program has been inundated with Shelton transfers.

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At the risk of starting a Wells bashing here, that sounds suspiciously similar to the same start days everyone started to complain about him alienating high school coaches in the state, and generally being regarded as "losing his touch."

I'm so tired of people on this site dogging the shelton state transfers and local kids that the coaches have recruited. Most of these players have produced just fine. Some of the above mentioned didn't work out for reasons other than their ability to perform well or simply because of injuries. I think that part of recruiting is guesswork. Who truly knows how a player will adjust when he gets to college? Lots of factors come into play. School work, jiving with the team, a new environment, new weight training routines, etc. I think the coaches are doing a good job at recruiting the players that they feel will be good performers and fit into the Bama atmosphere. It's not like they are taking the easy route and just recruiting close to home and not traveling to different places. I would think the coaches have a good network in the southeast. I think they can probably get to know more about the players that are close by because they can see them more often and get info from coaches, etc. As an extra complication, many of these players have not hit with a BBCOR bat and have to adjust to that as well. Let's stay positive and hope the rest of the season we can win, win, win.

Did you guys actually see the first 2 ab's by are dh Sat. Breaking ball everybody in the stands knew that was going to be short swung at. Next pitch down the tube take for a strike. The 0-2 pitch out of the zone over his head he offered at it and he is close to 6-4. Repeat same as first at bat. Not just picking on him. Come on guys We went to Ok to recruit that we need to evaluate are recruiting. FIND TOUGH BALL PLAYERS. Nothing against ANDY but most of the hitting coaches in this league (the best in the country have about 10-12 years on coaching college kids at this level. Hey you got to start somewhere and I wouldn't turn down the job. Just the facts. Things are not smooth at LSU and Ole Miss has been slipping for about 3 years now. It is tough to stay on top for sure. These other schools are committed to the baseball program. We should be working extra hard looking for a niche or an edge to get it done, but it's not getting done and I don't have an answer but I'm tired of wanting to look the other way to make everybody feel good. No excuses. Mental toughness. Could some of these kids play for Grant or Saban? Could they play for Corbin or Tanner or Van Horn?

Bama could easily pick up guys here in central Florida, but we never do (we don't even recruit central FL, period). We come down here for basketball and football players, why not baseball? They play bball here year round from age 3 and have some of the best HS products in the nation. Yet many go to JUCO because no other D-1 schools come calling. USF, UF, FSU, UCF, FAU, etc can't get them all. Heck, the population of the Tampa Bay area alone is 4.5 million (Alabama state pop 4.6 m), so there are plenty of quality players out there. There are 4 HS's in a 10 mile radius of where I live and each have 3-5 players who can play D-1 ball. Why don't we go after them? {rant off}

Clarkmom said:

IIt's not like they are taking the easy route and just recruiting close to home and not traveling to different places. I would think the coaches have a good network in the southeast.

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It doesn't hurt to look beyond the Southeast, though. Consider the 1997 squad, which was one of the greatest college baseball teams ever assembled. You had a productive mix of in-state talent with standouts from all over the country.

C – Matt Frick (Scottsdale, AZ)
1B – Robbie Tucker (Huntsville, AL)
2B – Joe Caruso (Lock Haven, PA)
3B – Andy Phillips (Demopolis, AL)
SS – Nate Duncan (Shreveport, LA)
OF – G.W. Keller (Bakersfield, CA)
OF – David Tidwell (Grenada, MS)
OF – Dustan Mohr (Hattiesburg, MS)
DH/LHP – Roberto Vaz (Brooklyn, NY)
OF - Mark Peer (St. Louis, MO)

SP – Pete Fisher (Stoneham, MA)
SP – Heath Henderson (Birmingham, AL)
RP – Jarrod Kingrey (Fortson, GA)
SP – Manny Torres (Trumbull, CT)
RP - Doug Hurst (Pensacola, FL)


Man, those were the days...

JoJoforHeisman said:

It doesn't hurt to look beyond the Southeast, though. Consider the 1997 squad, which was one of the greatest college baseball teams ever assembled. You had a productive mix of in-state talent with standouts from all over the country.

C – Matt Frick (Scottsdale, AZ)
1B – Robbie Tucker (Huntsville, AL)
2B – Joe Caruso (Lock Haven, PA)
3B – Andy Phillips (Demopolis, AL)
SS – Nate Duncan (Shreveport, LA)
OF – G.W. Keller (Bakersfield, CA)
OF – David Tidwell (Grenada, MS)
OF – Dustan Mohr (Hattiesburg, MS)
DH/LHP – Roberto Vaz (Brooklyn, NY)
OF - Mark Peer (St. Louis, MO)

SP – Pete Fisher (Stoneham, MA)
SP – Heath Henderson (Birmingham, AL)
RP – Jarrod Kingrey (Fortson, GA)
SP – Manny Torres (Trumbull, CT)
RP - Doug Hurst (Pensacola, FL)


Man, those were the days...

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Its a shame that team didn't win it all. I was the SEC Championship when they beat the brakes off of LSU to win it. Think it was 14-2. I was in college and got a picture with Joe Caruso still have it after all these years, first at bat I ever saw from a major college game in person was him hitting home run that got about 20 feet off the ground and over right center by about 3 feet that game (got there about 5 minutes late!), he really put a charge in that ball....gorilla ball days! All in all, that whole team could flat out play. 56-14 overall record. Nasty, just nasty!

Those are the days that have spoiled us Crimson.

Well then I think these kids deserve even more credit. If they walked on the team and worked hard enough to earn a spot on the team to play.

Mom, the reason they were able to earn a spot is that there were not enough people there to keep them out of it. I think that you may have an emotional attachment to the issue and I respect that, but on this team the lower 3rd of the order are guys who are going to hit a lot closer to .200 than to .300 and that's not winning baseball in this very difficult league. Now, the last year I played organized baseball I hit exactly .200, so I know it's tough and I know it's tough when your heart is greater than your athletic ability, but baseball, just like any other sport, judges you on your performance on the field and the way that you contribute to wins. Character is an all-important trait in life and anyone would rather play with team mates who will put the team before themselves, but in order to win a national championship, which should be the goal of every Alabama baseball team, you have to have both character and athletic ability.

No matter how great these kids are as people we need better hitters and fielders. We need to win and we need to win on a national scale. Maybe one day we could win a CWS with guys recruited mainly from west Alabama, but if we did we would certainly defy all the odds. I wish each and every one of these guys the very, very best. I envy every single one of them for living their dreams, but more than either one of those things I want to sit in Omaha and watch us hoist that trophy. I want that more than I want anything else in the world of sports, and for that to happen there are going to have to be changes made in this program. I think that you can see that, can't you?

rtr

I do totally understand. I don't have an attachment other than the fact that my son is a local boy who plays baseball and I enjoy watching alabama play. I would love it one day if my son did play for Alabama. I just think that people jump to conclusions too quick according to what is happening at that very moment. Last year when the bama boys did well, the local talent on the team was written up in the newspaper to showcase the local talent. This year, when we have lost so many to the draft and we are not winning every single game, the local talent is being criticized. I think everyone knew coming into this season that it was going to be a building year with so many young players. We seem to have forgotten that and are now concluding that our coaches can't recruit and the local talent isn't good enough to play at bama.

Why did Bunn leave? I thought he was one of the BEST pitching coaches in the nation, but I've been wrong before. I never really heard why he left. We really have too much talent in AL/GA/FL to not get them, there are PLENTY to go around.

I still want Bobby Pierce, I think he's the most underrated coach in the nation.

RollTideGoHeels said:

Why did Bunn leave? I thought he was one of the BEST pitching coaches in the nation, but I've been wrong before. I never really heard why he left. We really have too much talent in AL/GA/FL to not get them, there are PLENTY to go around.

I still want Bobby Pierce, I think he's the most underrated coach in the nation.

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The consensus was the he didn't get along with the laid personalities in the dugout. Other than that, I have no idea. He was ex-military I believe, and coached like it. Granted I played for a tough guy like that myself and personally would rather have that as a coach than the opposite, but it ultimately depends on a person's personality as to what they like.