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Daniel Moore back in court

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Grievous Angel

BamaNation Citizen
Jan 22, 2012
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Football related? Football prints . . I guess.

I'm in the minority but I have maintained Moore should pay licencing and royalty like any other merchandiser. Moore has made his living off of selling Alabama. I don't think of it as unreasonable. He claims he's an artists--fine. Call it art. But it's more about merchandising. He should be subjected to the same rules as the hat, shirt, and trinket makers.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...t-argue-football-paintings-case-federal-court

I have a few of Moore's prints. I think he does the best work. But I haven't bought a single print since this hi-jinx broke out. To not pay in the name of "free speech" and then put your "art" on a coffee mug and 4 inch print is absolutely ridiculous. If you "love" Alabama you'll pay the same licensing and royalty that all the other merchandisers do. You probably owe it to all the other universities you paint and "love."
 
U

uaintn

All-American
Aug 2, 2000
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From a strictly intellectual perspective it is a very interesting matter. No question both parties have interests that need protecting. The University has to protect its trademarks (and for too many years it did not). But how and where to draw the line? The right to obtain a fee also means the right to deny permission.

Here is the tough example. If I'm planning to write a book critical of the University's football program from, say 2000-2005 I need to use phrases like "University of Alabama", "Crimson Tide", "Tide", "Bama" etc. It would also be helpful to have photos of the individuals I am discussing, including players in uniform. The cover needs to make some reference to Alabama in order for potential readers to know what the book is about. If the University's trademark rights are such that I need its permission to use those phrases, then it's going to be tempting for it to stop my project. Is it different if I just publish a book of photographs of the team I made from the stands and sidelines over the years?

And of course, this decision won't be limited to University trademarks. The Court of Appeals has to think about other uses of trademarks. What if my book was about American Express or General Motors instead of Alabama football?

The only thing I am sure about is that neither side acted in its best interests in letting this dispute get this far and this expensive.
 
JIB

JIB

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Nov 2, 2011
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Sterrett
I'm 100% against intellectual property so I'm with Moore on this one. He doesn't owe the University a nickel.
 
theBIGyowski

theBIGyowski

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Aug 4, 2005
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Before this thread gets shut down...


Didn't the courts rule that Moore only has to pay royalties on the merchandise that has his art? So...mugs, pens, mousepads, etc...those things would be considered merchandise. His prints, however, would be considered art, and would not fall under the same rules, meaning he would not have to pay royalties. I want to say that was the final decision in all of this.
 
Jessica4Bama

Jessica4Bama

Hall of Fame
Nov 7, 2009
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I'm kinda torn on this subject. I can see where both sides are coming from. All I'm going to say is my dad and brother love his prints.
 
Lady Crimson

Lady Crimson

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Oct 13, 2011
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I can see both sides:

DM creates his Alabama art and UA demands their share because they believe without Alabama Football DM has nothing to create in the first place.

Then again, everyone knows that without DM there is no Alabama art created in the first place...
 
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C

CullmanTide

Hall of Fame
Jan 7, 2008
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It's a shame the two sides can't come to an agreement. Moore has profited from Alabama's success through sales to alumni and fans. Alabama has benefited from having an artist of Moore's caliber portraying the football program in a positive way. Lets hope the courts can come to an equitable decision.
 
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TideEngineer08

TideEngineer08

TideFans Legend
Jun 9, 2009
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I believe Moore has paid royalties to other Universities he has painted, but got out of paying UA because the numerals on the helmet did not pass as a trademarked image. I distinctly remember this coming up in the threads on this when the lawsuit was originally filed.

If I remember that correctly, then I have a major problem with Moore's stance on this. Having said that, I agree it is a shame the two sides could not come to an agreement in private. This does not and has not made UA look good at all despite how right their claim may be.
 
Vinny

Vinny

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Moore has the talent and right to earn a living. UA has gotten too greedy and this will bite them in the you know what....
 
bamaborn81

bamaborn81

New Member
Jan 1, 2009
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Tide Country
I understand where Moore is coming from. He doesnt take photos and sell them he works from them. How can SI and newspapers take photos and sell them without paying royalties? I also on the other hand believe he should pay royalties on the other items. I think they should come to the agreement to meet in the middle.
 
bamabryan

bamabryan

Hall of Fame
Jan 1, 2006
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TideEngineer08 said:
Yes. I don't know enough to say they are right or wrong. They may be 100% right to sue Moore, but from a PR perspective they cannot win on this.
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Maybe I misunderstood you in your earlier post.

I don't see how the university will ever win this in the courtroom and from a PR perspective. The lawsuit was filed due to a select few at the university. Due to legal precedents I don't see how the university will ever win this case.
 
B

BamaDude06

1st Team
Sep 15, 2006
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crimsonaudio said:
I've not read anything about this one but I wonder if this lawsuit is one of those 'defend it or lose it' type of situations.
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Exactly...much like when Disney threatened to sue several daycares back in the 1980s for using paintings of Disney characters on their walls. It's simply to keep someone else from coming in and saying "Well you didn't force them to pay you for your image so I don't have to pay you either." It sucks that it comes to this, but the University can't take the chance of that happening.

IIRC from the first case, Moore use to pay royalties, but when the agreement expired he started to claim he shouldn't have to pay them. Seems to be a bad position to be in when you claim you shouldn't have to pay them now when you agreed to pay them in the past.
 
Bama Reb

Bama Reb

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Nov 2, 2005
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It seems to me that both Moore and UA have each other over the same proverbial barrel. Without Moore, there are very few people talented enough to make such beautiful artwork. Without UA, Moore wouldn't have nearly the demand for his product. Seems to me that UA should make Daniel Moore their official artist. Of course without the extremely talented Crimson Tide, neither would have the success they both enjoy. Frankly, I think both parties could profit handsomely from such a partnership.
 
bamabryan

bamabryan

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Bama Reb said:
It seems to me that both Moore and UA have each other over the same proverbial barrel. Without Moore, there are very few people talented enough to make such beautiful artwork. Without UA, Moore wouldn't have nearly the demand for his product. Seems to me that UA should make Daniel Moore their official artist. Of course without the extremely talented Crimson Tide, neither would have the success they both enjoy. Frankly, I think both parties could profit handsomely from such a partnership.
Click to expand...
Bama Reb, well said. You make an excellent point.
 
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