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  1. #14
    BamaNation Hall of Fame DiamondDust's Avatar
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    Re: The perception of college football vs. the NFL

    Going to counter some of this:

    Quote Originally Posted by HartselleTider View Post

    From my experience, die hard college football fans and die hard NFL fans are just flat out two completely different types of fanbases in general.

    I think die hard college football fans have a distinct appreciation for the GAME of football itself. Whereas die hard NFL fans don't seem to appreciate the actual game of football. They only appreciate whether the overpaid divas whose jerseys they bought are getting hyped up in the media as much as the overpaid divas from their "rivals".
    Really? What level of football has a huge chunk of its fanbase living on the whims of high school players and then losing their minds when said players pick a school that isn't the one they support? I'm a die hard NFL fan and appreciate the game of football, which is why I don't play fantasy football or get caught up with individual players. Both college and the NFL have idiot fans... don't try and make it out that college fans are so much purer and noble in their intentions than NFL fans.

    Which brings me to my next point. Rivalries in the NFL do not exist anymore in my opinion. I think rivalries in the NFL died with the inception of free agency. When lifelong Packers like Brett Favre are wearing Minnesota Viking jerseys..... lifelong Dolphins like Jason Taylor are playing for the New York Jets.... Thurman Thomas in a Dolphins uniform... Emmitt Smith in an Arizona Cardinal jersey... one of the greatest Raiders of all time Marcus Allen playing for the Kansas City Chiefs, etc...
    I'm guessing you have watched a Jets/Patriots, Bears/Packers, Colts/Patriots, Steelers/Ravens, or any NFC East game recently. Heck, I'd even throw the Giants/Patriots in there as a rivalry now. Free agency didn't kill team vs. team rivalries (Besides, why should a player be bound to a team for basically his entire career?)

    ... the term "rivals" just holds no water for me. It's about money. Loyalty in professional sports only goes to whoever is going to pay them the money.
    It's a business. What do you expect?

    NFL football is just so watered down compared to college football in my opinion. The caliber of players may be superior, but that doesn't mean the product on the field is.
    Please tell me how it is watered down? I'd like specific examples. The NFL is a copycat league with 32 teams as opposed to 120. The play on the field is naturally going to look similar.
    Last edited by DiamondDust; February 13th, 2012 at 11:27 AM.
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  3. #15
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    Re: The perception of college football vs. the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondDust View Post
    Going to counter some of this:



    Really? What level of football has a huge chunk of its fanbase living on the whims of high school players and then losing their minds when said players pick a school that isn't the one they support? I'm a die hard NFL fan and appreciate the game of football, which is why I don't play fantasy football or get caught up with individual players. Both college and the NFL have idiot fans... don't try and make it out that college fans are so much purer and noble in their intentions than NFL fans.



    I'm guessing you have watched a Jets/Patriots, Bears/Packers, Colts/Patriots, or Steelers/Ravens game recently. Heck, I'd even throw the Giants/Patriots in there as a rivalry now.



    It's a business. What do you expect?



    Please tell me how it is watered down? I'd like specific examples. The NFL is a copycat league with 32 teams as opposed to 120. The play on the field is naturally going to look similar.


    You may not necessarily represent the majority of the NFL fanbase. But the fact is, the NFL's insane popularity nowdays has watered down fanbases. They've expanded to a point where a large percentage of the fanbase of ANY NFL team don't really understand the game as much as they think. They can't even have a conversation about football if it doesn't revolve around statistics. (see Fantasy Football)

    Every University has fans that have never attended the school. However, I think the large majority of a school's fanbase has some sort of personal tie to the University itself. Unlike fans of professional sports. Obviously, if you're a Packers fan or some team that has a ton of tradition and history, being a fan of that team is a family tradition and means much more. But that's simply not the case most of the time.

    The NFL is a business, and it's a business FIRST... a sport second. Which waters it down from the way it used to be. Guys used to play professional football because it's how they paid their bills and raised a family. The outrageous contracts have watered down the sport for anybody that's willing to step back and take a serious look at it.

    None of those rivalries you point out can measure up to a hill of beans compared to college football rivalries. The rivalries in college football are real. They're based off legitimate hatred in some instances that go back 100+ years.

    None of the players off any of those teams care one iota about that rivalry if the other team offers them the money their looking for. It's just the way it is.

  4. #16
    BamaNation Hall of Fame selmaborntidefan's Avatar
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    Re: The perception of college football vs. the NFL

    Free agency is something of a valid point in both MLB and NFL. However, there's still a core that remains on a dynasty or near dynasty. Let's also be honest - the weather turns bad there much earlier most years. Not a problem in a dome but who really wants to sit in snow at Happy Valley in November to see a pair of 4-loss teams competing for the Independence Bowl play?

    As far as SEC dominance, that thought has been out there for 50 years. SEC fans were proclaiming it even in 2000 when the league was a little below par. PAC 12 fans can cite bowl records but seriously - drop the 2011 BCS title game & when was the last SEC-West Coast bowl showdown?

    Had time to check? The 1989 Freedom Bowl pitting a Washington Huskies team whose sophomores would win the 1991 title against a Florida team with an interim coach facing a hard probation.

    That's a FAIR assessment game? True, Florida's same sophomores wonthe 1991 SEC title, but their program was in disarray. And reciting bowl stats from the 1980s to prove superiority today is as insane as saying since Alabama mauled UCLA in 1976, that proves the SEC of 2011 is better.

    Also - MOST of the PAC 10 wins in the last decade came courtesy of one team - USC.

    While I understand the concern & think to an extent it is overstated, if we're going to use a small sample size & CURRENT games:

    Second best SEC team destroyed PAC 12 champ.

    Any questions? Game was a killing with artificially close score.

  5. #17
    BamaNation Hall of Fame DiamondDust's Avatar
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    Re: The perception of college football vs. the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by HartselleTider View Post
    You may not necessarily represent the majority of the NFL fanbase. But the fact is, the NFL's insane popularity nowdays has watered down fanbases. They've expanded to a point where a large percentage of the fanbase of ANY NFL team don't really understand the game as much as they think. They can't even have a conversation about football if it doesn't revolve around statistics. (see Fantasy Football)
    The same can easily be said about college fans, and if you need proof... read threads on this board when it comes to how our offense plays at times. Also check out a gameday thread.

    Every University has fans that have never attended the school. However, I think the large majority of a school's fanbase has some sort of personal tie to the University itself. Unlike fans of professional sports. Obviously, if you're a Packers fan or some team that has a ton of tradition and history, being a fan of that team is a family tradition and means much more. But that's simply not the case most of the time.
    I don't have personal ties to the Patriots so I can't claim that (I picked them because they are an extremely well run organization with a top notch head coach), but still... a large chunk of a fanbase is personally tied to a team through geography. If you grow up in an NFL city, you're likely to be a fan of that team. The same goes for growing up near a college team.

    The NFL is a business, and it's a business FIRST... a sport second. Which waters it down from the way it used to be. Guys used to play professional football because it's how they paid their bills and raised a family. The outrageous contracts have watered down the sport for anybody that's willing to step back and take a serious look at it.
    Why are the contracts so outrageous? Do you have a personal problem with people making that level of money? Did you watch the Namath documentary? If so, what were your thoughts of Coach Bryant telling him to ask for $200,000 right out of college when that was a ridiculous price? You do realize most (not all, but most) college players are playing the sport strictly to get into the NFL. Not for the love of the game or any other reason. It's to make it to the league and get a payday. What's wrong with that?

    None of those rivalries you point out can measure up to a hill of beans compared to college football rivalries. The rivalries in college football are real. They're based off legitimate hatred in some instances that go back 100+ years.
    Again, to pro-fans... most college rivalries don't mean jack. I'm sure the TV ratings of those games compared to college rivalry games would tell an interesting story as well. Also, if you don't think some NFL rivalries aren't based on legit hatred, you're nuts.

    None of the players off any of those teams care one iota about that rivalry if the other team offers them the money their looking for. It's just the way it is.
    If you worked for a company and their rival offered you a lot more money to come to them, what would your thoughts be about that rivalry?
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  6. #18
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    Re: The perception of college football vs. the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by selmaborntidefan View Post
    While I understand the concern & think to an extent it is overstated, if we're going to use a small sample size & CURRENT games:

    Second best SEC team destroyed PAC 12 champ.

    Any questions? Game was a killing with artificially close score
    .
    Keep in mind I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here. So are we suppose to take that one game and going forward say from year to year, before any games are played, that the SEC is the best conference? That would beg the question "What will it take for the SEC not to be considered the best conference?" Not win the BCS title? If that's the case then that is a very high standard. A conference could very well be th best conference from top to bottom and not win the BCS title that year. Like I said earlier, I think there is some merit to what the haters are saying. And they do have some games to point to say "Hey guys, you might not be the best conference EVERY YEAR." There are so many teams in college football, even just taking into account the AQ conferences, that it will always be subjective as to who has the best conference. Because there's no way to line enough teams up consistently against each other to make a credible assessment.
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  7. #19
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    Re: The perception of college football vs. the NFL

    The ultimate reason folks in the North East prefer the NFL, is their college teams are sub standard.
    Poor Offense, Poor Defense = Teams that loose to SEC teams.

    Folks up North complain of college football corruption.
    Based on what? Penn State's sex Scandal/coverup,
    or Ohio State's Tattoo gate, money scandal?

    Face it... college football in the North East is 'Mired in Mediocrity'.


    There's a lot of 'The Pot Calling the Kettle Black' going on in the North East.
    Last edited by Ole Man Dan; February 13th, 2012 at 01:24 PM. Reason: format

  8. #20
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    Re: The perception of college football vs. the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondDust View Post
    The same can easily be said about college fans, and if you need proof... read threads on this board when it comes to how our offense plays at times. Also check out a gameday thread.



    I don't have personal ties to the Patriots so I can't claim that (I picked them because they are an extremely well run organization with a top notch head coach), but still... a large chunk of a fanbase is personally tied to a team through geography. If you grow up in an NFL city, you're likely to be a fan of that team. The same goes for growing up near a college team.



    Why are the contracts so outrageous? Do you have a personal problem with people making that level of money? Did you watch the Namath documentary? If so, what were your thoughts of Coach Bryant telling him to ask for $200,000 right out of college when that was a ridiculous price? You do realize most (not all, but most) college players are playing the sport strictly to get into the NFL. Not for the love of the game or any other reason. It's to make it to the league and get a payday. What's wrong with that?



    Again, to pro-fans... most college rivalries don't mean jack. I'm sure the TV ratings of those games compared to college rivalry games would tell an interesting story as well. Also, if you don't think some NFL rivalries aren't based on legit hatred, you're nuts.



    If you worked for a company and their rival offered you a lot more money to come to them, what would your thoughts be about that rivalry?


    All you're doing is taking offense to everything I say because you're an NFL fan. I didn't mean to offend you.

    I don't have any problem with NFL players taking whatever anybody is willing to pay them, that's not my point. It's not personal. Heck, we'd all take the money. I just think it waters down the league. You have guys holding out for more money all the time because they think they're worth more, even when they already have more than they can spend. The problem is, after they've held out and get their money (Chris Johnson, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Albert Haynesworth, etc., etc. for example) they play like crap.

    A coach can bench a player for underperforming or not practicing hard in college or high school, NFL coaches can't do that. The owner is paying that player big time money for him to be on the field and selling tickets, it doesn't matter how big of a pain in the butt the player is, or if he even deserves to be out there.

    College rivalries are simply more storied, with more tradition, and have a more legitimate make-up. That's not opinion, that's just the way it is. College football has been around a lot longer than the NFL has. Rivalries and tradition is what makes college football what it is. I think you can ask any player or coach in the NFL and 99% will tell you that college rivalries are simply much better than NFL rivalries.

    DeMeco Ryans said it best a couple years ago when Phil Simms asked him before Houston played Dallas if he hated the Cowboys. "No I don't hate the Cowboys". Ryans said, "I hate Auburn".

    That about sums it up. You play "rivalries" in the NFL. You LIVE rivalries in college football. It's part of who you are, and no amount of money will ever change it.

  9. #21
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    Re: The perception of college football vs. the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by selmaborntidefan View Post
    They can blame themselves.

    Sports in this country - professional anyway - were once confined to north of the Mason-Dixon line with St Louis the western border. They viewed the South as primitive and racist & while nobody should deny the reality of the latter, it's not like the Northeast was better. The World Series began after baseball had been around about 25 years in 1903 but no blacks were allowed to play until 1947. I'm just pointing out the failure to expand South cannot justifiably be racism since that was institutionalized in all sports.

    NFL was their baby as well. You have to remember that by the time Atlanta got an NFL team, Alabama had won 3 titles the previous 5 years. Lewis Grizzard (UGA, 1968) theorized that the Southern male was emasculated by being the only American to ever lose a war (pre-Vietnam) and that this gave him additional pride to fight for state superiority.

    Also - how many teams in the NE have been national powers for any period of time since the Ivy League pulled back? Basically Penn State was like Boise from 1968-78. That loss to Alabama in 79 put them on the map. The only other "power" for the NE was Notre Dame due to heavy Catholic populations in CT, Mass, and MD.

    Once they shrunk & the world grew nature took care of the rest.
    Notre Dame is in Indiana, thats actually Mid-west, correct?

  10. #22
    BamaNation Hall of Fame DiamondDust's Avatar
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    Re: The perception of college football vs. the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by HartselleTider View Post
    All you're doing is taking offense to everything I say because you're an NFL fan. I didn't mean to offend you.

    I don't have any problem with NFL players taking whatever anybody is willing to pay them, that's not my point. It's not personal. Heck, we'd all take the money. I just think it waters down the league. You have guys holding out for more money all the time because they think they're worth more, even when they already have more than they can spend. The problem is, after they've held out and get their money (Chris Johnson, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Albert Haynesworth, etc., etc. for example) they play like crap.

    A coach can bench a player for underperforming or not practicing hard in college or high school, NFL coaches can't do that. The owner is paying that player big time money for him to be on the field and selling tickets, it doesn't matter how big of a pain in the butt the player is, or if he even deserves to be out there.

    College rivalries are simply more storied, with more tradition, and have a more legitimate make-up. That's not opinion, that's just the way it is. College football has been around a lot longer than the NFL has. Rivalries and tradition is what makes college football what it is. I think you can ask any player or coach in the NFL and 99% will tell you that college rivalries are simply much better than NFL rivalries.

    DeMeco Ryans said it best a couple years ago when Phil Simms asked him before Houston played Dallas if he hated the Cowboys. "No I don't hate the Cowboys". Ryans said, "I hate Auburn".

    That about sums it up. You play "rivalries" in the NFL. You LIVE rivalries in college football. It's part of who you are, and no amount of money will ever change it.
    You're not offending me... I'm just refuting what I see as a weak argument on your part. I don't see the NFL as "watered down" due to the money involved. You do have good points about holdouts, but there have been plenty of holdouts who have performed quite well after getting paid. As for the benching, NFL coaches can do that if they have a owner that is competent and not a meddler. The franchises that are consistently good and in the playoffs are the ones that have stable leadership and don't get in the way of on the field decisions.

    The line from DeMeco is a bit misleading due to the fact Houston and Dallas aren't rivals and only play each other once every 4 years (Outside of any meaningless preseason game they might do). Ask a Jet what he thinks of a Patriot and vice versa. The same goes for a Raven when asked about a Steeler. It'd be different if Houston and Dallas were divisional rivals. If he was playing for the Giants or Eagles... then that statement would have a little more bearing.

    If I do sound worked up, it's usually because most people on this board will post a thread critical of the NFL in comparison to college football and then say, "Well, I don't even watch the NFL on a regular basis"... totally reducing their argument and validity in my book. I don't know what your level of viewership is.
    Last edited by DiamondDust; February 13th, 2012 at 01:39 PM.
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  11. #23
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    Re: The perception of college football vs. the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondDust View Post
    You're not offending me... I'm just refuting what I see as a weak argument on your part. I don't see the NFL as "watered down" due to the money involved. You do have good points about holdouts, but there have been plenty of holdouts who have performed quite well after getting paid. As for the benching, NFL coaches can do that if they have a owner that is competent and not a meddler. The franchises that are consistently good and in the playoffs are the ones that have stable leadership and don't get in the way of on the field decisions.

    The line from DeMeco is a bit misleading due to the fact Houston and Dallas aren't rivals and only play each other once every 4 years (Outside of any meaningless preseason game they might do). Ask a Jet what he thinks of a Patriot and vice versa. The same goes for a Raven when asked about a Steeler. It'd be different if Houston and Dallas were divisional rivals. If he was playing for the Giants or Eagles... then that statement would have a little more bearing.

    If I do sound worked up, it's usually because most people on this board will post a thread critical of the NFL in comparison to college football and then say, "Well, I don't even watch the NFL on a regular basis"... totally reducing their argument and validity in my book. I don't know what your level of viewership is.

    They'll say whatever it takes to get the fans foaming at the mouth, but it's mostly all for show. It's not a genuine distaste or anything for the other team.

    If the team on the other side of that "rivalry" offers him a better contract, he's going to be in that team's uni badmouthing the other team and vice versa. It's not genuine.

    Jason Taylor badmouthed the Jets his entire career and talked constantly about how much he "hated" them. Then went to play for them, and badmouthed his former team. Even went so far as to say Rex Ryan was the best coach he ever played under, etc., etc. Then hated the Jets again when he went back to Miami to finish his career.

    It's a job to them. A business. They hate whoever they're supposed to hate, and love whoever is signing their paychecks. The rivalries in the NFL exist only the heads of the fanbases. The players know it and play on it to boost their marketability.

    My level of NFL viewership is mostly just a casual observer. I like football so of course I watch NFL games if I can get around to it on Sunday afternoons. I don't dislike the NFL, nor do I fault anyone who's in love with it. I just call it how I see it.

  12. #24

    Re: The perception of college football vs. the NFL

    Probably because big-time college football is corrupt.

    In the NFL, a player gets paid above-board for his services, he has a union that goes to bat for him, he has a pension if he plays long enough, etc.

    A college football player is not availed to this. That doesn't mean that pay-for-play isn't rampant, freebies (cars, fake jobs,cash, etc) aren't handed out at many top programs.
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  13. #25
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    Re: The perception of college football vs. the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by It's On A Slab View Post
    Probably because big-time college football is corrupt.

    In the NFL, a player gets paid above-board for his services, he has a union that goes to bat for him, he has a pension if he plays long enough, etc.

    A college football player is not availed to this. That doesn't mean that pay-for-play isn't rampant, freebies (cars, fake jobs,cash, etc) aren't handed out at many top programs.

    I don't think anybody denies that big time college football is corrupt. That's kinda like saying professional boxing is corrupt.

    I think the NCAA as an organization is more corrupt than any individual program though. One of the biggest gripes I have is that a school can't purchase a student athlete who literally has nothing a plane ticket to fly home in order to attend his mother's funeral.

    Pay for play, cars, bling, etc. is a different can o' worms.

  14. #26
    FB Moderator Bamabuzzard's Avatar
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    Re: The perception of college football vs. the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by It's On A Slab View Post
    Probably because big-time college football is corrupt.

    In the NFL, a player gets paid above-board for his services, he has a union that goes to bat for him, he has a pension if he plays long enough, etc.

    A college football player is not availed to this. That doesn't mean that pay-for-play isn't rampant, freebies (cars, fake jobs,cash, etc) aren't handed out at many top programs.
    Unfortunately when the money that is involved (in anything) becomes more and more then the level of corruption increases accordingly.
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