Santorum: Satan is working on the USA

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CrimsonChuck

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Satan is the prosecutor? and he wants us to succeed? this is new to me. what is your affiliation, if you don't mind?
I am Jewish. I was just pointing out that the Jewish concept of Satan is much different than the Christian. Here is a summary...

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1093498/jewish/Can-You-Sell-Your-Soul-to-the-Devil.htm

I guess they are both similar in saying that Satan is trying to make one disobey God's will. The reasons are different though.
 
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92tide

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Maybe by Muslims...I can't speak for them. But not by Jews. And Satan is completely different from Christianity too. He is not against God at all. A good analogy is that Satan is the "prosecutor" of the heavenly court. He will put stumbling blocks in our path, but he wants us to succeed in getting past them.
i thought Jews saw Jesus as a prophet as well. my mistake. oh well, there is always Jews for Jesus ;)
 

92tide

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I am Jewish. I was just pointing out that the Jewish concept of Satan is much different than the Christian. Here is a summary...

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1093498/jewish/Can-You-Sell-Your-Soul-to-the-Devil.htm

I guess they are both similar in saying that Satan is trying to make one disobey God's will. The reasons are different though.
this guy did a lecture and book signing at our church last year. it was an interesting talk and the book was pretty interesting as well.
 
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MattinBama

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My biggest issue with the bible is that the God in the Old Testament and the God in the New Testament are completely different guys, but yet they're taught as being the same.

I believe there was most likely a creator of some sort - too many things are perfect imho to be randomly generated, even if it was an alien building a mini-universe in a test-tube. I was raised in the church, stopped going as a teenager when I got tired of the hypocrisy of organized religion and eventually came around to where I am now in that I consider myself agnostic because there is no proof one way or the other. To me it makes no sense that God would be coming down and hanging out with people in the stone age, but can't be bothered to show up on an episode of Jersey Shore and remind everyone that he's still kicking around now a days. And you can spare me the George Michael lyrics.
 

nx4bama

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nx4bama

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My biggest issue with the bible is that the God in the Old Testament and the God in the New Testament are completely different guys, but yet they're taught as being the same.
I am aware of some of the things that people site in reference to this. What are some of the things you are referring to?
 

nx4bama

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I believe there was most likely a creator of some sort - too many things are perfect imho to be randomly generated, even if it was an alien building a mini-universe in a test-tube. I was raised in the church, stopped going as a teenager when I got tired of the hypocrisy of organized religion and eventually came around to where I am now in that I consider myself agnostic because there is no proof one way or the other. To me it makes no sense that God would be coming down and hanging out with people in the stone age, but can't be bothered to show up on an episode of Jersey Shore and remind everyone that he's still kicking around now a days. And you can spare me the George Michael lyrics.
There are a lot of problems with assuming no creator. I saw a a documentary once that had several of the leading evolutionary scientists, and not a single one could adequately explain how life began. I don't want to debate evolution, but if
someone were to hold to the belief that all of this is random, you would necessarily have to be able to explain the beginning. The problem is that the more science discovers about DNA and the make-up of the cell, the harder it is to explain the beginning.
 

Jon

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There are a lot of problems with assuming no creator. I saw a a documentary once that had several of the leading evolutionary scientists, and not a single one could adequately explain how life began. I don't want to debate evolution, but if
someone were to hold to the belief that all of this is random, you would necessarily have to be able to explain the beginning. The problem is that the more science discovers about DNA and the make-up of the cell, the harder it is to explain the beginning.
When you consider the fact that Evolution as a Theory has absolutely nothing to do with how life began it begins to make more sense as to why Evolutionary Scientists can not adequately explain creation.

Now if you spoke with Scientists who work with the theory of Abiogenesis I am sure you would get several who have great ideas of creation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

what you will find in abundance with both groups of scientists (and the many that overlap) is that while many will say "we just don't know how life began but we have multiple good competing theories" there are very few that will say "we will never know or can't know therefore god did it"
 

nx4bama

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When you consider the fact that Evolution as a Theory has absolutely nothing to do with how life began it begins to make more sense as to why Evolutionary Scientists can not adequately explain creation.

Now if you spoke with Scientists who work with the theory of Abiogenesis I am sure you would get several who have great ideas of creation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

what you will find in abundance with both groups of scientists (and the many that overlap) is that while many will say "we just don't know how life began but we have multiple good competing theories" there are very few that will say "we will never know or can't know therefore god did it"
several of the "good competing theories" consisted of life forming somewhere else and somehow arriving here on earth ready to go. i'm not really sure how that explains the beginning of life. it seems that it is merely postponing the inevitable.

"well, if we can't explain how life formed here, let's just say it formed on mars and then found it's way here...."

OK, how did it get on Mars?

"well, we'll have to spend some time there in order to figure that one out."

I know that's over-simplifying things, but some of the probabilities for life forming "accidentally" are beyond astronomical

Wikipedia also mentioned Francis Crick, who, if I'm not mistaken, came to believe that DNA was too complex to have originated in any other way except by a creator.

I would also like to add that I appreciate that you referred to Evolution as a theory and not scientific fact as I have witnessed many times on boards like this.
 
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twofbyc

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several of the "good competing theories" consisted of life forming somewhere else and somehow arriving here on earth ready to go. i'm not really sure how that explains the beginning of life. it seems that it is merely postponing the inevitable.

"well, if we can't explain how life formed here, let's just say it formed on mars and then found it's way here...."

OK, how did it get on Mars?

"well, we'll have to spend some time there in order to figure that one out."

I know that's over-simplifying things, but some of the probabilities for life forming "accidentally" are beyond astronomical
Me, I'm still trying to get past the burning bush...:wink:
 

92tide

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several of the "good competing theories" consisted of life forming somewhere else and somehow arriving here on earth ready to go. i'm not really sure how that explains the beginning of life. it seems that it is merely postponing the inevitable.

"well, if we can't explain how life formed here, let's just say it formed on mars and then found it's way here...."

OK, how did it get on Mars?

"well, we'll have to spend some time there in order to figure that one out."

I know that's over-simplifying things, but some of the probabilities for life forming "accidentally" are beyond astronomical

I would also like to add that I appreciate that you referred to Evolution as a theory and not scientific fact as I have witnessed many times on boards like this.
theory means a lot more than you think it does.
 

RammerJammer14

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Wow...you sure took that one in an unexpected direction, but since I don't "manscape", I can't relate....
meh, discussion was starting to get pretty deep

for the record, I wouldn't know either, except some retard I was in basic with thought it would be a great idea, and we all heard the screaming
 

twofbyc

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And that clearly applies to what he said. :rolleyes:

In the same spirit, I will henceforth lump people who take tylenol for headaches in with meth heads and heroine addicts.
Uh, no, it does not apply to what he said in that post, specifically, to what I made bold, which was (since you obviously didn't read it the first time :rolleyes:)...I'm not afraid of people of faith. Not real hard to understand.....unless you just can't.
 
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