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Santorum: Satan is working on the USA

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twofbyc

twofbyc

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Thomas Jefferson:
Jefferson

I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth. Jefferson's Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVII.
Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus
The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.

Thomas Paine
I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible).Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the Bible).It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible.Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins...and you will have sins in abundance.
The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in pretended imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty.

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92tide

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Bodhisattva said:
The Founders were of the Age of Enlightenment, and, as such, many were deists. While they considered themselves Christian, their focus on reason made them skeptical of miralces, Jesus' divinity, prophecies, and other religious "mysteries".
Click to expand...
careful with that sentiment bodhi, it might get you in trouble. i hear folks been stocking up on packets of gravel ;)

 
Jon

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nice quotes lil red

go read the Wiki entry on the Treaty of Tripoli which states explicitly

"[as] the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"

this was ratified unanimously by the US Senate in 1797 and Signed by John Adams. You'd think if the founders, most of which were still around, had founded us a christian nation that there would have been some that would have voted against this. Yet they did not, what does that tell you about the US being a Christian nation?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli

J
 
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cbi1972

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Thomas Jefferson
...redacted a quote that was a mishmash of other quotes...

"In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot ... they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose."
To Horatio Gates Spafford (March 17, 1814)

John Adams
"What havoc has been made of books through every century of the Christian era? Where are fifty gospels, condemned as spurious by the bull of Pope Gelasius? Where are the forty wagon-loads of Hebrew manuscripts burned in France, by order of another pope, because suspected of heresy? Remember the 'index expurgatorius', the inquisition, the stake, the axe, the halter and the guillotine."
letter to John Taylor, 1814

Abraham Lincoln
"The bible is not my book and Christianity is not my profession."
quoted by Joseph Lewis in "Lincoln the Freethinker"

"My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them."
to Judge J S Wakefield, after Willie Lincoln's death (Willie died in 1862), quoted by Joseph Lewis in "Lincoln the Freethinker

Benjamin Franklin
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."
Poor Richard’s Almanack (July 1758)

"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves both here (England) and in New England."
Letter to the London Packet, 3 June 1772

James Madison
"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
June 20, 1787, "Memorial and Remonstrance" to the General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Virginia

"Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."
to Edward Livingston, 10 July 1822

"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."
June 20, 1787, "Memorial and Remonstrance" to the General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Virginia


Thomas Paine
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church."
Age of Reason

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
Age of Reason
 
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lilred

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cbi1972 said:
Thomas Jefferson
"The Christian god is a three headed monster, cruel, vengeful, and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites."

"In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot ... they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose."

John Adams
"What havoc has been made of books through every century of the Christian era? Where are fifty gospels, condemned as spurious by the bull of Pope Gelasius? Where are the forty wagon-loads of Hebrew manuscripts burned in France, by order of another pope, because suspected of heresy? Remember the 'index expurgatorius', the inquisition, the stake, the axe, the halter and the guillotine."

Abraham Lincoln
"The bible is not my book and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma."

"My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them."

Benjamin Franklin
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."

"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves both here (England) and in New England."

James Madison
"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

"Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."

"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."

Thomas Paine
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church."

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
Click to expand...
If you noticed all of my quotes had references. Where are the ones for these quotes???
 
GreatDanish

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I don't know why there is such disagreement on this.

It seems that the founders were predominantly Christian, but they left God out of most of the founding documents because of the number that were not Christian. The country was founded on religious liberty, not Christianity despite most of the founders being Protestant.

The prevailing quality that was sought in America was freedom and liberty. For the Christian, just as God allowed humans free will, so would the nation allow its citizens.

Unfortunately, both sides of this argument have turned this into a "our Founders wanted Christianity to be a requirement for citizenship" vs. "our founders wanted Christianity stricken from the record" argument. I don't know that anyone really says either of those, but it seems like those are slightly extreme versions of what is said.

The point of America is, whether you are Christian, deist, atheist, or whatever, you have a place where you are free to practice whatever religion you want free from government interference, so long as your religion does not infringe upon the rights of others.

Is that wrong?
 
nx4bama

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twofbyc said:
Thomas Jefferson:
Jefferson

I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.
Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus
The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.

Thomas Paine
I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible).Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the Bible).It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible.Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins...and you will have sins in abundance.
The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in pretended imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty.

​


​



​



​
Click to expand...

Could be that both of those are addressing the corruption of the church (Church of England, perhaps) rather than Christianity itself. I would like to have some context to form my own opinion. Where did these quotes originate?
 
92tide

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GreatDanish said:
I don't know why there is such disagreement on this.

It seems that the founders were predominantly Christian, but they left God out of most of the founding documents because of the number that were not Christian. The country was founded on religious liberty, not Christianity despite most of the founders being Protestant.

The prevailing quality that was sought in America was freedom and liberty. For the Christian, just as God allowed humans free will, so would the nation allow its citizens.

Unfortunately, both sides of this argument have turned this into a "our Founders wanted Christianity to be a requirement for citizenship" vs. "our founders wanted Christianity stricken from the record" argument. I don't know that anyone really says either of those, but it seems like those are slightly extreme versions of what is said.

The point of America is, whether you are Christian, deist, atheist, or whatever, you have a place where you are free to practice whatever religion you want free from government interference, so long as your religion does not infringe upon the rights of others.

Is that wrong?
Click to expand...
are you trying to stop the thread? ;)
 
Jon

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GreatDanish said:
I don't know why there is such disagreement on this.

It seems that the founders were predominantly Christian, but they left God out of most of the founding documents because of the number that were not Christian. The country was founded on religious liberty, not Christianity despite most of the founders being Protestant.

The prevailing quality that was sought in America was freedom and liberty. For the Christian, just as God allowed humans free will, so would the nation allow its citizens.

Unfortunately, both sides of this argument have turned this into a "our Founders wanted Christianity to be a requirement for citizenship" vs. "our founders wanted Christianity stricken from the record" argument. I don't know that anyone really says either of those, but it seems like those are slightly extreme versions of what is said.

The point of America is, whether you are Christian, deist, atheist, or whatever, you have a place where you are free to practice whatever religion you want free from government interference, so long as your religion does not infringe upon the rights of others.

Is that wrong?
Click to expand...
I liked this and then re-read

you got your causality wrong IMO. The founders did not leave god out because of anyone who was non-christian (muslims and jews have the same god after all) they left god out because they knew that religion and governance should not mix. They were keenly aware that rulers have always used religion as a form of control and wanted that to be no part of their country. They left people free to chose to believe or not believe with no ramifications at all from their elected officials.

And no it's not wrong

J
 
MattinBama

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John Adams
"Hanging out with Satan lately has been the bomb-diggity. We're definitely gonna keep the church & state separate on his recommendation. The hell with Christian internet posters hundreds of years in the future."
George Washington
"My boy Satan, aka Lil' Red, been chillin' wid us while we bang out this new country."
 
nx4bama

nx4bama

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GreatDanish said:
I don't know why there is such disagreement on this.

It seems that the founders were predominantly Christian, but they left God out of most of the founding documents because of the number that were not Christian. The country was founded on religious liberty, not Christianity despite most of the founders being Protestant.

The prevailing quality that was sought in America was freedom and liberty. For the Christian, just as God allowed humans free will, so would the nation allow its citizens.

Unfortunately, both sides of this argument have turned this into a "our Founders wanted Christianity to be a requirement for citizenship" vs. "our founders wanted Christianity stricken from the record" argument. I don't know that anyone really says either of those, but it seems like those are slightly extreme versions of what is said.

The point of America is, whether you are Christian, deist, atheist, or whatever, you have a place where you are free to practice whatever religion you want free from government interference, so long as your religion does not infringe upon the rights of others.

Is that wrong?
Click to expand...
I agree with you. I don't think the founders wanted a government sponsored Christian religion (most were familiar with the Church of England, a state-run religion), but they generally agreed that the morals of Christianity were what would sustain us as a nation. They also never intended anyone to be forced out of a political race simply because he believes in Satan. I think that would fall under his freedom of religion that everybody is preaching.
 
92tide

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nx4bama said:
I agree with you. I don't think the founders wanted a government sponsored Christian religion (most were familiar with the Church of England, a state-run religion), but they generally agreed that the morals of Christianity were what would sustain us as a nation. They also never intended anyone to be forced out of a political race simply because he believes in Satan. I think that would fall under his freedom of religion that everybody is preaching.
Click to expand...
who is being forced out of a political race simply because they believe in satan? I don't think you understand how freedom of religion works.
 
G

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nx4bama said:
Could be that both of those are addressing the corruption of the church (Church of England, perhaps) rather than Christianity itself. I would like to have some context to form my own opinion. Where did these quotes originate?
Click to expand...
I think the context would be important. It reminds me of a pastor in Bham being asked if he thought only Baptist would go to Heaven. His reply was something along the lines of that many of them were going to Hell as well. Depending on the context, a person could say that a Baptist pastor believes that all other religions and most Baptist were going to Hell.

I do think that the USA was founded under Judeo-Christian ethics but not as a "Christian Nation" but rather a nation of individual liberty, responsibilities and freedoms where its citizens were born with certain unalienable rights. If we went back to that, there would be a lot of changes in this country....
 
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