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  1. #1
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bodhisattva's Avatar
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    Taxpayers will be paying for the auto bailouts for decades to come.

    Like going to Vegas and not counting your losses, deeming bailouts a "success" only works if you don't count all the failures.

    The bailouts worked, the story goes, because General Motors and Chrysler still exist and their stocks are trading above $0. (This is known in some circles as "Bamaro logic.") Yet existence is a lousy measure of success, given that the car makers were able to shed billions of dollars of debt and labor obligations in their government-managed and -financed bankruptcies.

    And while GM, Chrysler and Ford may be out of financial danger, for now, their political liabilities continue to multiply. The Bush-Obama bailout isn't over because its terms increase the chances that one or more of the Big Three end up in trouble again.

    ...

    That was the real issue for the White House because of its potential damage to union labor. So it proceeded to orchestrate an out-of-court prepackaged bankruptcy. Bond holders would have taken a severe haircut no matter what, but Mr. Obama's force majeure subordinated their rights to the UAW's. Even Steve Rattner, who led the auto task force and is its most ardent defender, conceded to the Detroit News in December that "We didn't ask any active worker to cut his or her pay, we didn't ask them to sacrifice any of their pension and we maybe could have asked them to do a little bit more."

    Thus the bailout become a tool for less discipline, not more, when Chrysler entered bankruptcy with $8.1 billion in government financing and GM with $30.1 billion. The government became the majority shareholder in the latter and the UAW in the former. Taxpayers still own 26% of GM, and shares will need to rise to $53 from their current $26 to recoup the Bush-Obama investment.

    ...

    The point is that the auto bailout isn't an example of enlightened government revitalizing an industry after a market failure. It is a bailout in the wake of failed government policies and bad management that may keep going and going as Washington does whatever it takes to make sure Detroit keeps doing its political bidding.
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...toWhatsNewsTop
    Last edited by Bodhisattva; February 26th, 2012 at 05:07 PM.
    Bodhi


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  3. #2
    BamaNation All-American RollTideMang's Avatar
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    Re: Taxpayers will be paying for the auto bailouts for decades to come.

    Where can I sign up to be a non-tax payer?

  4. #3

    Re: Taxpayers will be paying for the auto bailouts for decades to come.

    Quote Originally Posted by RollTideMang View Post
    Where can I sign up to be a non-tax payer?
    Make a campaign contribution to Pres. Obama. Start an algae growing operation. You'll get a visit from VP Biden, several hundred million in taxpayer funded startup grants, and you're all set.

  5. #4
    BamaNation All-American mikes12's Avatar
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    Re: Taxpayers will be paying for the auto bailouts for decades to come.

    Quote Originally Posted by ValuJet View Post
    Make a campaign contribution to Pres. Obama. Start an algae growing operation. You'll get a visit from VP Biden, several hundred million in taxpayer funded startup grants, and you're all set.
    Or you might get nominated into a cabinet position.

  6. #5
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bamaro's Avatar
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    Re: Taxpayers will be paying for the auto bailouts for decades to come.

    The US auto industry screwed up royally over a period of more than 40 years. At the same time that they were ready to fail, the economy as a whole was on the edge of a precipice. Unfortunately, the cost of doing nothing was significantly larger than the cost of doing something. Rather than crying about what we had to do in the past we should be taking steps to assure that we never have to do it again in the future.

  7. #6
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bodhisattva's Avatar
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    Re: Taxpayers will be paying for the auto bailouts for decades to come.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamaro View Post
    The US auto industry screwed up royally over a period of more than 40 years. At the same time that they were ready to fail, the economy as a whole was on the edge of a precipice. Unfortunately, the cost of doing nothing was significantly larger than the cost of doing something.
    Not true. Many companies go through bankruptcy without the economy collapsing. You can buy the government line of bull if you want to, but you won't be able to sell it to those who know better.

    Rather than crying about what we had to do in the past we should be taking steps to assure that we never have to do it again in the future.
    Who is "we"? If you mean the "taxpayers" or the "government" we should never have had to do anything and never should in the future. The market, if allowed to work, takes care of this. Success or failure is earned. All the government does is punish the winners and bailout the losers, which nets us less winners and more losers. Why doesn't ignoring the established rule of law bother you? This was just a big gift from taxpayers to the unions. Obama's theft doesn't bother you either?
    Last edited by Bodhisattva; February 26th, 2012 at 05:42 PM.
    Bodhi


    Lily (age 6): Daddy, I know what I want to be when I grow up: an artist.
    Bodhi (internally groaning): Yeah? What kind of artist?
    Lily: A balloon animal artist!
    Bodhi (face palm)

  8. #7
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bamaro's Avatar
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    Re: Taxpayers will be paying for the auto bailouts for decades to come.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Not true. Many companies go through bankruptcy without the economy collapsing. You can buy the government line of bull if you want to, but you won't be able to sell it to those who know better.
    Sure but to use a term that has become popular, it was the perfect storm. A critical manufacturing industry at an extremely critical time. I dont like bailouts anymore than you but sometimes situations force us to do things we really would rather normally not do.

  9. #8

    Re: Taxpayers will be paying for the auto bailouts for decades to come.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikes12 View Post
    Or you might get nominated into a cabinet position.

    Or to the EPA!
    "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, Give me Liberty, or give me Death!" Patrick Henry

  10. #9

    Re: Taxpayers will be paying for the auto bailouts for decades to come.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamaro View Post
    Sure but to use a term that has become popular, it was the perfect storm. A critical manufacturing industry at an extremely critical time. I dont like bailouts anymore than you but sometimes situations force us to do things we really would rather normally not do.
    You do what you have to do in desperate times.

    And it saved us from that precipice. Everything else we hear right now are sour grapes over failed economic policies proven wrong(yet again).
    [B][/B]

  11. #10
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bodhisattva's Avatar
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    Re: Taxpayers will be paying for the auto bailouts for decades to come.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamaro View Post
    Sure but to use a term that has become popular, it was the perfect storm. A critical manufacturing industry at an extremely critical time. I dont like bailouts anymore than you but sometimes situations force us to do things we really would rather normally not do.
    Quote Originally Posted by It's On A Slab View Post
    You do what you have to do in desperate times.

    And it saved us from that precipice. Everything else we hear right now are sour grapes over failed economic policies proven wrong(yet again).
    P.T. Barnum was right. Unfortunately, you suckers cost us all a lot of money.
    Bodhi


    Lily (age 6): Daddy, I know what I want to be when I grow up: an artist.
    Bodhi (internally groaning): Yeah? What kind of artist?
    Lily: A balloon animal artist!
    Bodhi (face palm)

  12. #11

    Re: Taxpayers will be paying for the auto bailouts for decades to come.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    P.T. Barnum was right. Unfortunately, you suckers cost us all a lot of money.
    So was Einstein: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".



    [B][/B]

  13. #12
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bodhisattva's Avatar
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    Re: Taxpayers will be paying for the auto bailouts for decades to come.

    Quote Originally Posted by It's On A Slab View Post
    So was Einstein: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".



    Right. Government involvement in the economy keeps screwing things up. And yet, for some perverse reason, you buy the "government should ride to the rescue" line of bull. Why do you do that?
    Bodhi


    Lily (age 6): Daddy, I know what I want to be when I grow up: an artist.
    Bodhi (internally groaning): Yeah? What kind of artist?
    Lily: A balloon animal artist!
    Bodhi (face palm)

  14. #13
    BamaNation All-American crimson fan man's Avatar
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    Re: Taxpayers will be paying for the auto bailouts for decades to come.

    I don't know much about the economy or business in general but all I know is obama done this not for the nation benefit but for the unions. This is another example of the gov buying votes. Unions should be a dying breed.

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