The Last 4.7 Seconds

TrueGritnPluck

Suspended
Nov 21, 2011
1,658
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What if Grant had just let them play? It looked to me that Steele had an open 3, from a spot he had just made one a few minutes before. It also looked as though he had a driving lane in front of him to the paint.


As the TO is called, you also see the CU baseline defender running up to Steele - who might have had an opportunity to pass down to an open Green on the baseline for an open look from 17 feet or so.

Would we have been better served to just play it out?
 

Ldlane

Hall of Fame
Nov 26, 2002
14,253
398
102
What if Grant had just let them play? It looked to me that Steele had an open 3, from a spot he had just made one a few minutes before. It also looked as though he had a driving lane in front of him to the paint.


As the TO is called, you also see the CU baseline defender running up to Steele - who might have had an opportunity to pass down to an open Green on the baseline for an open look from 17 feet or so.

Would we have been better served to just play it out?
I'm not sure Grant saw him with the "jumbled" mess in front of him.
 

day-day

Hall of Fame
Jan 2, 2005
9,937
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Bartlett, TN (Memphis area)
Maybe Steele could have taken a shot and got fouled on the attempt.:)

Tough to know what Grant saw but everyone looked confused in that instance. It did look a little silly but I'm okay with it. Should have had two options depending on zone or man but maybe they did and the players misread it. Or, have a more generic play (like screen out top) that may be somewhat effective for zone or man?

I did agree with letting the team go after the missed free throw. Creighton made the foul at the right time since they had one to burn..
 

BamaMTA06

All-SEC
Sep 9, 2007
1,911
12
57
All I'm going to say is that I watched Coach Grant at VCU every chance I got. Seeing his clock management in various games and watching him essentially out coach Coach K in the NCAA tournament I'm going to venture to say they players were all out of sorts. He gets the benefit of the doubt from me. From my vantage point that play looked like disaster and complete chaos.

I still ticked and will be for a long time at the complete lack of effort by Green and Jacobs going for that rebound. Grab that ball we are down 1 with 18 seconds and then the players let all of that time run off the clock before we foul. That play summed up all of our losses to me. I hope that's not me being to critical of the players, but that was ridiculous.
 

Alasippi

Suspended
Aug 31, 2007
12,875
2
57
Ocean Springs, MS
I think Coach Grant will have an outstanding career at Bama and I'm behind him 100%.

There's no way you inbound at 4.7 and call timeout at 2.4 UNLESS you have a screen and lob pass play that goes inside to a big man.

If it's going to be a desperation "Three" then why take them out of rhythm? Just let em play.

Still, we should have had three free throws.

sip
 

BamaMTA06

All-SEC
Sep 9, 2007
1,911
12
57
I think Coach Grant will have an outstanding career at Bama and I'm behind him 100%.

There's no way you inbound at 4.7 and call timeout at 2.4 UNLESS you have a screen and lob pass play that goes inside to a big man.

If it's going to be a desperation "Three" then why take them out of rhythm? Just let em play.

Still, we should have had three free throws.

sip
I hated the last play. I would have rather we run some type of screen action to get Releford or Lacey the ball going toward the basket. 2.2 is enough for two dribbles and a shot. I hated that last play call. Now way Green was getting the ball in that situation.
 

Ldlane

Hall of Fame
Nov 26, 2002
14,253
398
102
I hated the last play. I would have rather we run some type of screen action to get Releford or Lacey the ball going toward the basket. 2.2 is enough for two dribbles and a shot. I hated that last play call. Now way Green was getting the ball in that situation.
Don't know if that was the last play call. Looks like we took what was open.
 

imauafan

All-American
Mar 3, 2004
3,619
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Huntsville, AL
I was flabbergasted that we did not take a timeout when the foul occurred. I thought we would take the timeout to set something up. 4.7 seconds is not much time to get the ball in bounds and setup for a shot, 2.4 is nearly impossible. Bad decision, IMHO.
 

Ldlane

Hall of Fame
Nov 26, 2002
14,253
398
102
I was flabbergasted that we did not take a timeout when the foul occurred. I thought we would take the timeout to set something up. 4.7 seconds is not much time to get the ball in bounds and setup for a shot, 2.4 is nearly impossible. Bad decision, IMHO.
Why? The play was already called from the TO before the miss. All we have to do call the right Inbounds play and set.
 

bamanix

1st Team
Mar 24, 2010
528
0
0
timeout at 4.7 is the best call. settle the young men down, and set up a play that can either win with a shot or get fouled, and then one and one at worst.
 

imauafan

All-American
Mar 3, 2004
3,619
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Huntsville, AL
Why? The play was already called from the TO before the miss. All we have to do call the right Inbounds play and set.
There is no reason to let the clock run out with a timeout in your back pocket. With 4.7 seconds on the clock that is the last legitimate chance you have to use it. Use it to settle everyone down, prepare the guys for any defense. It isn't just a inbounds play, it is an inbounds play that can lead to the best and fastest shot possible. You've got one opportunity in that situation.
 

Ldlane

Hall of Fame
Nov 26, 2002
14,253
398
102
Maybe Steele could have taken a shot and got fouled on the attempt.:)

Tough to know what Grant saw but everyone looked confused in that instance. It did look a little silly but I'm okay with it. Should have had two options depending on zone or man but maybe they did and the players misread it. Or, have a more generic play (like screen out top) that may be somewhat effective for zone or man?

I did agree with letting the team go after the missed free throw. Creighton made the foul at the right time since they had one to burn..
See what I think too many people are hung up on running "plays". I can tell you that most coaches run "offenses" that rely on a players basketball sense to make a play. Some coaches run "sets" with plays. Grant runs an "offense".

For the inbounds you have multiple options that they should know. During the game you can run it out of a "stack", "box" or "circle" (motion). Then for last second plays you have the "quick hitters". These are basic things that all coaches know, nothing special. The bottom line is whether the players can remember the play on the quick hitters. Doesn't look like several did. In basketball everyone has to be in the right place at the right time.
 

Ldlane

Hall of Fame
Nov 26, 2002
14,253
398
102
So what happened it looked like was that the play that off the foul:

1. We went to a "M2M" in-bounds play when they manned up on our stack.

2. They quickly dropped into zone after the inbound.

3. TO called for the Zone.

"We had a man-to-man play on, so I tried to get a quick timeout to give our guys something to go with," Grant said.
4. We went to a "box" to counter the zone on the next in-bounds.
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
6
0
Prattville
I saw several folks on Twitter go crazy about this. Then, the folks saw the replay of Trevor getting fouled. They changed their tune some. No one is talking about the last 4 seconds if Trevor makes the shot or the foul is called.

One writer I follow (Dan Wolken, I think) said that decision is one that can put a coach on the hot seat (his words, not mine because I feel CAG is VERY safe). For a coach that is/was on the hotseat, the no call by the refs is one that can cause a coach his job. How is that fair?
 

Crimson1967

Hall of Fame
Nov 22, 2011
18,734
9,919
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If this is five years from now and we are no better than a nine seed and losing like this in the first round, I'd say he needs to go.

But the team has improved every year. They missed the postseason the first year, made the NIT finals last year and now are in the Big Dance. If that guy is seriously saying this will put Grant on the hot seat, he is an idiot.
 

day-day

Hall of Fame
Jan 2, 2005
9,937
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Bartlett, TN (Memphis area)
See what I think too many people are hung up on running "plays". I can tell you that most coaches run "offenses" that rely on a players basketball sense to make a play. Some coaches run "sets" with plays. Grant runs an "offense".

For the inbounds you have multiple options that they should know. During the game you can run it out of a "stack", "box" or "circle" (motion). Then for last second plays you have the "quick hitters". These are basic things that all coaches know, nothing special. The bottom line is whether the players can remember the play on the quick hitters. Doesn't look like several did. In basketball everyone has to be in the right place at the right time.
So true. Occasionally, a coach will pick up on a tendency and draw up a very specific play that works perfectly and looks so easy; this is rare and can't be expected at the end of the game. Also, a defender can step into the right position and totally blow up a "designed play" so play goes back to instincts and continued movement.

After viewing the replay, maybe Bama would have worked into a decent shot if Grant had let the play continue after inbounds at 4.7. There was enough time to improvise but as bad as things looked, Coach Grant's instinct took over and he called the timeout. Pretty good coaching job by both coaches at the end.

Our local paper had a couple of sentences about the game with one stating that the Creighton player (Jones?) blocked Relefords shot.
 

Ldlane

Hall of Fame
Nov 26, 2002
14,253
398
102
Coaching Note to self: Stop having your team practice FT's in pressure situations because it seems that Refs are not going to make calls that put the game on the line and into the hands of the shooter.
 
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day-day

Hall of Fame
Jan 2, 2005
9,937
1,659
187
Bartlett, TN (Memphis area)
Coaching Note to self: Stop having your team practice FT's in pressure situations because it seems that Refs are not going to make calls that put the game on the line and into the hands of the shooter.
And tell every kid you see shooting free throws alone and pretending that it is the end of a championship game with no time left on the clock to cut it out.
 

TrueGritnPluck

Suspended
Nov 21, 2011
1,658
0
0
Well, no one has really addressed the "what if we had played it out" thoughts.

I have now watched the replay twice - I think no doubt Releford was bumped on the drive and that may be called earlier in the game but you just do not get it in the late situation we were in. But I think, looking at the pic, and also the shot motion and result on the video, and I think it pretty clear TR was fouled.


But we also ended up with a very low percentage shot when a 2 wins the game. If you go back to the last timeout Steele had the ball with an open 3, a driving lane, and an option for Green to dive from the FT line for an open post entry. The player in the corner I mentioned was not Green, it was Lacey - and McDermott was leaving him as the TO was called, to move up on Steele.

I think Steele had 3 really good options - a drive into the paint, the drop down to Lacey in the corner for the open shot, or a pass to a cutting Green, if JG made himself available. At worst we had a better look at a 3 than we ended up with.


But after watching the tape, the best option might have been playing it out, with Steele getting the ball High Post pass too Green who then dropped a bounce to a baseline cutting Lacey. Or Steel fakes the pass to Green or teh shot, draws McDermott and drives a bounce pass down to a cutting Lacey.


The baseline was becoming wide open, unguarded for Lacey to either get an open shot or a driving ":Antoine Pettway Moment"
 
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