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  1. #14
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bodhisattva's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by gmart74 View Post
    cause when i think of science, i think of this goofy chick



    got the link from drudge. i would link the article but it has comments so im sure their will be cusswords somewhere
    Dayum.
    Bodhi


    Lily (age 6): Daddy, I know what I want to be when I grow up: an artist.
    Bodhi (internally groaning): Yeah? What kind of artist?
    Lily: A balloon animal artist!
    Bodhi (face palm)

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  3. #15
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bodhisattva's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama_Dawg View Post
    Isn't this about evolution? When dozens of scientific fields (genetics, biology, archaeology, etc.) are producing evidence that the world was not created the way the Bible says it was, the shortcut is to distrust science altogether.

    Unfortunately, there's a lot of baby to throw out with that bath water.
    I think it has been well established in this thread and previous ones that it's government-tainted science that is rightly distrusted, not the straw man pushed by the left.
    Bodhi


    Lily (age 6): Daddy, I know what I want to be when I grow up: an artist.
    Bodhi (internally groaning): Yeah? What kind of artist?
    Lily: A balloon animal artist!
    Bodhi (face palm)

  4. #16
    BamaNation First Team Bama_Dawg's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I think it has been well established in this thread and previous ones that it's government-tainted science that is rightly distrusted, not the straw man pushed by the left.
    So do you think conservatives are okay with the science behind evolution? Is that the straw man you're talking about? I'm not so sure. I was part of some of those no-holds-barred threads on TF and I can tell you that posts like "carbon dating is a lie!" were not exactly rare.

  5. #17
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bodhisattva's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama_Dawg View Post
    So do you think conservatives are okay with the science behind evolution? Is that the straw man you're talking about? I'm not so sure. I was part of some of those no-holds-barred threads on TF and I can tell you that posts like "carbon dating is a lie!" were not exactly rare.
    I'm not a conservative, so I can't speak for them. But, I'm a big believer in science and evolution and all that. I'm not a believer in Al Gore's fraud. That's the straw man I'm talking about.
    Bodhi


    Lily (age 6): Daddy, I know what I want to be when I grow up: an artist.
    Bodhi (internally groaning): Yeah? What kind of artist?
    Lily: A balloon animal artist!
    Bodhi (face palm)

  6. #18
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tidewater's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama_Dawg View Post
    So do you think conservatives are okay with the science behind evolution? Is that the straw man you're talking about? I'm not so sure. I was part of some of those no-holds-barred threads on TF and I can tell you that posts like "carbon dating is a lie!" were not exactly rare.
    I think you might be conflating conservatives with fundamentalist Christians. Two different things, in many cases.
    I'm fairly conservative on most issues, but I do not believe that the Earth is 5,300 years old. A Supreme Being who would create a process like radioactive decay, and then change how it works once mankind discovered how to read and understand it would be a fairly malevolent Supreme Being.

    On the topic of the opening post, if NOAA gives a research grant to a climate scientist to determine how fast global warming is happening, and tells him that if he comes back with a result that global warming is not happening, he will lose his grant, well, in such a case, I would not be surprised that the scientist brings back the result NOAA told him to bring back.
    I am sceptical of scientists whose funding is tied to what results they return, whether the funders are coal companies or global warming scientists. Francis Bacon is probably spinning in his grave over what is going on with scientific research today.
    Last edited by Tidewater; March 31st, 2012 at 01:43 PM.

  7. #19
    BamaNation First Team Bama_Dawg's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I'm not a conservative, so I can't speak for them. But, I'm a big believer in science and evolution and all that. I'm not a believer in Al Gore's fraud. That's the straw man I'm talking about.
    I'll meet you halfway on Gore: he wants people to believe we're driving off a cliff when in fact we may just be driving into a ditch. Cross our fingers that temperatures start coming down over the next hundred years and do not, as they have in the past, correlate with global CO2 concentrations.

    Still, while you may be the exception, I think you're underestimating the influence of Christianists on the anti-climate change crowd. Just to name a couple of high profile examples, you've got John Shimkus, the Republican congressman seeking the chairmanship of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, who said that global warming isn't real because "God said the Earth would not be destroyed by a flood.” And then there's James Inhofe in Oklahoma who said the "arrogance of people to think that we, human beings, would be able to change what He is doing in the climate is to me outrageous."

    These are guys that a conservative electorate chose to represent them. And they distrust science because it threatens their theology.
    Last edited by Bama_Dawg; March 31st, 2012 at 02:00 PM.

  8. #20
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bodhisattva's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama_Dawg View Post
    I'll meet you halfway on Gore: he wants people to believe we're driving off a cliff when in fact we may just be driving into a ditch. Cross our fingers that temperatures start coming down over the next hundred years and do not, as they have in the past, correlate with global CO2 concentrations.

    Still, while you may be the exception, I think you're underestimating the influence of Christianists on the anti-climate change crowd. Just to name a couple of high profile examples, you've got John Shimkus, the Republican congressman seeking the chairmanship of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, who said that global warming isn't real because "God said the Earth would not be destroyed by a flood. And then there's James Inhofe in Oklahoma who said the "arrogance of people to think that we, human beings, would be able to change what He is doing in the climate is to me outrageous."

    These are guys that a conservative electorate chose to represent them. And they distrust science because it threatens their theology.
    I don't care for the Christian fundamentalist influence in politics at all. But, I consider their influence less offensive than the green activists who want to cripple this country with regulations that serve no purpose. Government cannot solve climate change. In my experience government can't even order copier toner efficiently. (Our solution was to order all new copiers once we ran out of toner. No joke.) This is not the crowd I want "solving" anything.
    Bodhi


    Lily (age 6): Daddy, I know what I want to be when I grow up: an artist.
    Bodhi (internally groaning): Yeah? What kind of artist?
    Lily: A balloon animal artist!
    Bodhi (face palm)

  9. #21
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bamaro's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I think it has been well established in this thread and previous ones that it's government-tainted science that is rightly distrusted, not the straw man pushed by the left.
    I guess I missed that proof

  10. #22
    BamaNation Hall of Fame selmaborntidefan's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama_Dawg View Post
    Isn't this about evolution?
    Define evolution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama_Dawg View Post
    When dozens of scientific fields (genetics, biology, archaeology, etc.) are producing evidence that the world was not created the way the Bible says it was,
    I find this amusing - in light of the fact the Bible never really tells us the HOW. "On the first day.." etc. - such does not necessarily lend itself to the notion God (assuming His existence at this point) could not have used science.

    I don't know how old the earth is. Guess what? Neither does anybody else. The only real question is whether you think it was thousands, millions, or billions.

    I don't know - and to tell you the truth I don't care. It makes not an iota of difference. Proving the earth is billions of years old does not prove the non-existence of God. I'm in the camp of theologian B.B. Warfield from Princeton in the late 19th, early 20th century. I'm open to the TRUTHS of science, psychology, theology, the humanities, etc.

    I'm not open to the non sequitor assumptions of such science.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama_Dawg View Post
    the shortcut is to distrust science altogether.
    And that is just as wrong as making scientific pronouncements ex cathedra statements from the pope.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama_Dawg View Post
    Unfortunately, there's a lot of baby to throw out with that bath water.

    True. But junk science is junk science - even if the name on it is Darwin, Bohr, or Einstein (I'm only using names people would necessarily know, not taking a position on specifics of their different theories).
    :13

  11. #23
    BamaNation All-American Tider@GW_Law's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Heh. The guy who doesn't understand the private sector sees only solutions in government activity. What a surprise. Whatever non sequitur floats your boat, dude. Care to venture a guess at how many people with PhDs I know who work at NIH and tell me it's just like every other government bureaucracy with the way it wastes money?
    I keep forgetting how much you know about me.

    In terms of NIH folks, I'm guessing you will claim to know everybody there and that they've all privately confessed to you how terrible the federal gov't is, how they are just wastes of space, and how their entire existence is just a leech on society.

    Did I get that right?

  12. #24
    BamaNation Hall of Fame selmaborntidefan's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I don't care for the Christian fundamentalist influence in politics at all.
    Activists like any other solitary issue group.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    But, I consider their influence less offensive than the green activists who want to cripple this country with regulations that serve no purpose.
    The purpose they have is to control. What's funny to me is how many greens make fun of fundamentalist Christians and are themselves every bit as fundamentalist and irrational - only in reverse. I've long said the only thing worse than a fundamentalist is a backward fundamentalist.

    (To be fair, I am a fundamentalist if that term means holding to certain truths is indisipensable to the Christian faith - like the Resurrection of Jesus. Otoh - if fundamentalist means I condemn CCM because I think it's "worldly" or occupy my time with banning pornography, I'm not).

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Government cannot solve climate change.
    Government can't balance a checkbook (rim shot!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    In my experience government can't even order copier toner efficiently. (Our solution was to order all new copiers once we ran out of toner. No joke.) This is not the crowd I want "solving" anything.
    We agree.
    :13

  13. #25
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bamaro's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    I guess I just have a problem when someone cherry picks which science they choose to believe because it conflicts with their ideology.

  14. #26
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bodhisattva's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamaro View Post
    I guess I missed that proof
    Yep, you totally did. You may want to read what has been written. And then perhaps comprehend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tider@GW_Law View Post
    I keep forgetting how much you know about me.
    Big government, social engineering, the Constitution-is-very-malleable kind of guy, right?

    In terms of NIH folks, I'm guessing you will claim to know everybody there
    Nope.

    and that they've all privately confessed to you how terrible the federal gov't is, how they are just wastes of space, and how their entire existence is just a leech on society.
    Nope. But, they do recognize that, in spite of their best efforts, government is monumentally inefficient. This is true in DoD and NIH and everything else the government does, including the many bureaucracies who influence health care. Your problem is that you refuse to see the obvious.

    Did I get that right?
    Heh. Really? Not even close.
    Bodhi


    Lily (age 6): Daddy, I know what I want to be when I grow up: an artist.
    Bodhi (internally groaning): Yeah? What kind of artist?
    Lily: A balloon animal artist!
    Bodhi (face palm)

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