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  1. #66
    BamaNation Hall of Fame gmart74's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by nx4bama View Post
    first of all, that thought didn't come from a creationist website. i do have thoughts of my own. secondly, what other techniques are used to date rocks? all radiometric dating assumes a constant rate of decay. paleomagnetics assumes the poles have shifted at the same rate. no matter what methodology is used, you must operate under the assumption of constant rate of change. ASSUMING THAT THE EARTH IS BILLIONS OF YEARS OLD, we have not even observed enough change over the last 1000 years to accurately assess whether change is constant. That is .ooo1%. That would be the equivalent of me observing about 40 minutes of your life and making an assumption about the rest......
    even just studying tectonic plates shows the earth is extremely old... unless you believe gigatons of material can suddenly speed up or slow down yr by yr. additionally you can look at the overal temperature of earth and come to an approximate date. additionally we can track dna mutations through animals and tell that the earth is extremely old. even ice cores go back 800,000 yrs.

    there are multiple studies in very different areas of science that all point to an ancient earth. radiodating is simply one of many that can be used. so unless you are willing to state that radioactivity, tectonic shift, dna mutation, the # of sumeers/winters in a yr, and heat capacity of earth all suddenly and drastically changed 10,000 yrs ago, then i'd say the science is fairly well established.
    Last edited by gmart74; April 2nd, 2012 at 09:23 AM.

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  3. #67
    BamaNation First Team nx4bama's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamaro View Post
    Again, the science is clear.
    again, Jacksonville, MD is clearly an absurdity

  4. #68
    BamaNation First Team nx4bama's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by gmart74 View Post
    even just studying tectonic plates shows the earth is extremely old... unless you believe gigatons of material can suddenly speed up or slow down yr by yr. additionally you can look at the overal temperature of earth and come to an approximate date. additionally we can track dna mutations through animals and tell that the earth is extremely old. even ice cores go back 800,000 yrs.

    there are multiple studies in very different areas of science that all point to an ancient earth. radiodating is simply one of many that can be used. so unless you are willing to state that radioactivity, tectonic shift, dna mutation, the # of sumeers/winters in a yr, and heat capacity of earth all suddenly and drastically changed 10,000 yrs ago, then i'd say the science is fairly well established.
    not familiar with the ice cores.... i'll look into that for myself. all the others rely on some assumption. the tectonic plate speed depends on there actually being a "pangea" .... not sure how we could prove that. the temperature of earth is again, taking hundreds of years worth of data and applying it to billions of years.... .00001%... and assuming a constant rate of change. dna mutations require us to assume that they HAVE MUTATED, again something that was no observed.... your stacking theory upon theory. i understand that that is what science does and has done. i get all that. forgive me for suggesting that our assumptions might not be accurate....

  5. #69
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by gmart74 View Post
    even just studying tectonic plates shows the earth is extremely old... unless you believe gigatons of material can suddenly speed up or slow down yr by yr. additionally you can look at the overal temperature of earth and come to an approximate date. additionally we can track dna mutations through animals and tell that the earth is extremely old. even ice cores go back 800,000 yrs.

    there are multiple studies in very different areas of science that all point to an ancient earth. radiodating is simply one of many that can be used. so unless you are willing to state that radioactivity, tectonic shift, dna mutation, the # of sumeers/winters in a yr, and heat capacity of earth all suddenly and drastically changed 10,000 yrs ago, then i'd say the science is fairly well established.
    This is the same old story. When you go here you really do sound like the flat earth people.

    I do believe in an ancient earth. I am just one of those who are aware of the capacity of human beings to misunderstand data.

    All he is trying to say is that when you study the history of the earth you see seismic shifts in everything. We (as humans) repeatedly discover a ‘truth’ that fundamentally changes how we interpret the small amount of data we have.

    What breeds distrust (at least my distrust) is statements like yours where everyone is expected to just hop onboard. If there is any data we do have based on science it is to be VERY skeptical when someone makes a blanket statement without any room for dissent.

    We can and should make decisions based on the best data available. That does not mean that those who disagree are always misinformed, misled, or kooks.

  6. #70
    BamaNation Hall of Fame cbi1972's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by nx4bama View Post
    not familiar with the ice cores.... i'll look into that for myself. all the others rely on some assumption. the tectonic plate speed depends on there actually being a "pangea" .... not sure how we could prove that. the temperature of earth is again, taking hundreds of years worth of data and applying it to billions of years.... .00001%... and assuming a constant rate of change. dna mutations require us to assume that they HAVE MUTATED, again something that was no observed.... your stacking theory upon theory. i understand that that is what science does and has done. i get all that. forgive me for suggesting that our assumptions might not be accurate....
    By now we know how you operate, and it is clear that no amount of objective fact is sufficient for you to acknowledge the legitimacy of scientific observation, reason, and the obvious conclusions they generate. The base assumptions are that observation can tell us something about our universe, and that our world behaves consistently enough that we can discern rules for its operation with enough accuracy to make predictions which have the capacity to invalidate hypotheses. These assumptions require less faith and are more practical than any other worldview you care to name. If you wish to bask in a blissfully ignorant paradise of circular logic and special pleading where everything that happens, happens because some grand omnipotent being specifically willed it to happen, and that everyone trying to explain things in a way that makes actual sense is making false assumptions and pushing an agenda, then we have nothing to talk about.
    Audemus jura nostra defendere
    "When a loaf of bread looks like a banquet, I've no right buying tobacco. " - Grandpa Joe

  7. #71
    BamaNation Hall of Fame gmart74's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by mittman View Post
    When you go here you really do sound like the flat earth people.
    seriously??? so when 100's if not 1000's of scientists, in almost every field of science, completely and separately come to a similar conclusion, then you give it the same level of rigor as ancient unscientific people who thought the world was flat? really.....

    I am all for questioning science and keeping an open mind. i am absolutely a fan of questioning single studies in a single field.

    We can and should make decisions based on the best data available. That does not mean that those who disagree are always misinformed, misled, or kooks.
    I agree, but there isn't one single piece of scientific evidence that indicates the earth is only 6500 yrs old. not a single one. every scientific study shows the earth is at least a billion yrs old. even if they were wrong and misplaced a decimal point, that is still vastly older than creationists talk about. so im all for keeping an open mind, but at some point it is time to be realistic.

    * oh yeah, i forgot to mention erosion studies support it as well- so in addition to all of the other assumptions, we also must believe that the grand canyon was formed a million times faster than ever measured. or that it rained for 1000 yrs nonstop in order to weather various geological structures, and then suddenly the weather became normal as soon as recorded history started. it just seems to me that young earth theory requires a level of hand waving that just can't be taken seriously by anyone with an open mind. to believe in young earth theory requires one of 2 beliefs
    1. that every law of physics suddenly changed all in the last 10,000 yrs.
    2. that god deceptively (and correct me if im wrong but isnt satan the one who is into deception) made the world look a lot older than it is.
    Last edited by gmart74; April 2nd, 2012 at 10:03 AM.

  8. #72
    BamaNation Hall of Fame rizolltizide's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by gmart74 View Post
    cause when i think of science, i think of this goofy chick



    got the link from drudge. i would link the article but it has comments so im sure their will be cusswords somewhere
    She's got potential.
    RIP Hub

  9. #73
    BamaNation Hall of Fame rizolltizide's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by Tider@GW_Law View Post
    I guess you proving me right on 1 out of 2 isn't bad.

    I am still amazed that you have friends in every organization that comes up around these topics even after you've somehow forced the inefficiency of their employer and all manner of other political topics into your conversations with them. I can't imagine being friends with someone like that. Maybe I dodged a bullet on you never taking me up on a single invitation to grab a beer.
    I'ma take him out on my boat, but mainly because he says he has a hawt Asian wife.
    RIP Hub

  10. #74
    BamaNation Hall of Fame gmart74's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by nx4bama View Post
    all the others rely on some assumption. the tectonic plate speed depends on there actually being a "pangea" .... not sure how we could prove that.
    it doesnt really require pangea to exist- shapes of continents and fossils seem to indicate pangea existed. but let's say that it never existed. the himalayas are a clear product of continental drift. if they only move a few centimeters a yr, how many yrs does it take to make a mountain 30,000ft high? How about ethipia's rift valley? again, even if the scientists are off by a huge amount, ALL of the evidence shows earth to be old.

  11. #75
    BamaNation Hall of Fame gmart74's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by rizolltizide View Post
    She's got potential.
    i do like me the wymenz who wear turtlenecks

  12. #76
    BamaNation Hall of Fame RVTIDER's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by gmart74 View Post
    i do like me the wymenz who wear turtlenecks
    Anti-cleavage day?
    God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.

  13. #77
    BamaNation Hall of Fame rizolltizide's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by gmart74 View Post
    i do like me the wymenz who wear turtlenecks
    Yep.

    Get her some new teef, a new do, and change the glasses, and she'd be freak in no time.
    RIP Hub

  14. #78
    BamaNation Hall of Fame RVTIDER's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by rizolltizide View Post
    Yep.

    Get her some new teef, a new do, and change the glasses, and she'd be freak in no time.
    Teeth are not that bad, she needs to take lessons from Chesnik. Close that mouth a little baby.
    God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.

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