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  1. #105
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by gmart74 View Post
    then how can we have a conversation? if the crux of your argument is that the flying spaghetti monster will reveal things to us when he wants, then what is there to discuss? why even formulate and test a hypothesis if fsm will only reveal it as he chooses? your basic premise makes a conversation impossible to have. science doesn't acknowledge faith as a viable argument.
    You are right. It is difficult. Some people act unreasonably due to their convictions.

    Let’s leave calling God a flying spaghetti monster comment aside for a moment. Discounting what you would call non-scientific evidence that God exists leaves you at a disadvantage when trying to argue your point. People who believe in some kind of creator like you do not believe in coincidences. Some of the experiences and what would be called ‘faith building’ experiences simply are not provable scientifically.

    Granted, we humans have a history of getting this wrong too. What I would call an inaccurate correlation between action and result often lead to a belief in a deity who had specific control of a specific natural event.

    Now back to the comment. If you really want to have the conversation, comments like these are what stop them flat. At this point you simply appear to be playing to your side of the argument and no longer attempting to be convincing. Maybe this is the same result my comment about the flat earth conclusion had with you. If so that was not the intent. I will not take your comment to be that either.

    However, this goes back to the core discussion in the thread: the lack of trust developing in the scientific community. If there is a perceived built in bias (such as believing in God is the same as believing in a spaghetti monster) no matter how sound your scientific approach is at finding the truth (or more accurately the most viable conclusion given the evidence at hand) of a matter is not going to be trusted by a lot of people.

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  3. #106
    BamaNation First Team nx4bama's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by cbi1972 View Post
    I am not the one asserting that everything has to have a creator and making an exception that makes the assertion worthless. And there is nothing about ideas of the origin of the universe that has scientific consensus, much less the dogmatic certainty that you seem to expect science to exhibit on that front. What there is, is a consensus that saying "God did it" is no explanation at all.
    who's talking in circles now? you say that if one is to believe creation, then they must be able to explain the origin of the creator. why does science not need to explain the origin of all matter in the universe? if the matter "just was", it is absolutely the same leap to say the creator "just was". you have to start with something.

  4. #107
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama_Dawg View Post
    For fun, I just looked up "dinosaurs" on Conservapedia, and here's what I found:

    I love the "citation needed" after the third paragraph.
    I really don't think you want to go pointing to the fringes. There are a lot of easily laughed at conclusions (some of which turned out to be accepted) over history from both sides of this.

  5. #108
    BamaNation Hall of Fame cbi1972's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by nx4bama View Post
    who's talking in circles now? you say that if one is to believe creation, then they must be able to explain the origin of the creator. why does science not need to explain the origin of all matter in the universe? if the matter "just was", it is absolutely the same leap to say the creator "just was". you have to start with something.
    The burden of proof is on the one making the claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by mittman View Post
    However, this goes back to the core discussion in the thread: the lack of trust developing in the scientific community. If there is a perceived built in bias (such as believing in God is the same as believing in a spaghetti monster) no matter how sound your scientific approach is at finding the truth (or more accurately the most viable conclusion given the evidence at hand) of a matter is not going to be trusted by a lot of people.
    Much the worse for the credibility of "a lot of people"
    Last edited by cbi1972; April 2nd, 2012 at 03:11 PM.
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  6. #109
    BamaNation First Team nx4bama's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by cbi1972 View Post
    The burden of proof is on the one making the claim.
    sounds good! so, you claim that everything has resulted from a natural process..... what natural process produced the matter in the beginning? and where did it get the "material" to produce the matter?

    your belief in natural processes requires just as much faith as my belief in a creator.... in fact, i would dare say yours requires more
    Last edited by nx4bama; April 2nd, 2012 at 03:16 PM.

  7. #110
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by cbi1972 View Post
    Much the worse for the credibility of "a lot of people"
    The credibility to whom? I hold that the vast majority believe that there is a God. Those that are asking for funding with a percieved attempt to prove otherwise will need the credibility.

  8. #111
    BamaNation Hall of Fame cbi1972's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by nx4bama View Post
    sounds good! so, you claim that everything has resulted from a natural process..... what natural process produced the matter in the beginning? and where did it get the "material" to produce the matter?

    your belief in natural processes requires just as much faith as my belief in a creator.... in fact, i would dare say yours requires more
    My claim is that God is not an explanation of anything because it makes no falsifiable predictions.
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  9. #112
    BamaNation First Team nx4bama's Avatar
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by cbi1972 View Post
    My claim is that God is not an explanation of anything because it makes no falsifiable predictions.
    so what are the falsifiable predictions made by those who are explaining the origins of the universe?

  10. #113
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by cbi1972 View Post
    My claim is that God is not an explanation of anything because it makes no falsifiable predictions.
    Which gets us to the old 'prove a negative' argument. Just because you can't prove a negative, does not mean the negative statement is false. That is an unreasonable assumption if you are really trying to get at the truth.

  11. #114
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by nx4bama View Post
    so what are the falsifiable predictions made by those who are explaining the origins of the universe?
    It depends on what explanation you are asking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by mittman View Post
    Which gets us to the old 'prove a negative' argument. Just because you can't prove a negative, does not mean the negative statement is false. That is an unreasonable assumption if you are really trying to get at the truth.
    The whole 'prove a negative' argument is one attributed to science by theists who believe science is TRYING to disprove God, which of course, they are not, since it is known to be non-falsifiable, and thus nonscientific.
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  12. #115
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by nx4bama View Post
    yeah, it revises itself, generally after ridiculing the discoverer of the new idea for a hundred years or so......
    That seems like a misreading of history. While there have certainly been squabbles between scientists, the real conflict has been between scientists and the church.

  13. #116
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by mittman View Post
    I really don't think you want to go pointing to the fringes. There are a lot of easily laughed at conclusions (some of which turned out to be accepted) over history from both sides of this.
    Is Conservapedia a fringe site? According to Alexa, it's the 37th most visited conservative web site, ranking just behind Bill O'Reilly and Redstate and just ahead of Powerline.

    http://rightwingnews.com/uncategoriz...tive-websites/

  14. #117
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    Re: Conservatives trust in science has declined sharply

    Quote Originally Posted by cbi1972 View Post
    The whole 'prove a negative' argument is one attributed to science by theists who believe science is TRYING to disprove God, which of course, they are not, since it is known to be non-falsifiable, and thus nonscientific.
    You need to look up ontology. You may be correct that some theists may have latched on to the argument, but it is older than that. That said, this area of metaphysics makes my head hurt. EVERYONE seems to go in circles. In any event you were the one who used the argument.

    To say that there is not an active effort in the scientific community to disprove the existance of God requires a head fully buried in the sand.

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