View Poll Results: How would you vote on this issue?

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  • Yes

    14 29.79%
  • No

    32 68.09%
  • I wouldn't vote, for whatever reason.

    1 2.13%
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  1. #40
    BamaNation Hall of Fame uafan4life's Avatar
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    Re: Would you vote for a short, mandatory, military/civil service for [most] US citiz

    Quote Originally Posted by SavannahDare View Post
    Of those of you in favor of it, which of you have served in the military? If so, how do you think that has shaped your stance on mandatory military service?
    Care to start us off?
    I have yet to figure out why common sense and common courtesy are called common.
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  3. #41
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    Re: Would you vote for a short, mandatory, military/civil service for [most] US citiz

    Quote Originally Posted by uafan4life View Post
    Care to start us off?
    Sure, but my view is skewed because I was one of the ones responsible for weeding out the unsuitable. I'm jaded and I admit it. I'm interested in knowing how those of you who may not have been in any of the support corps see it differently.
    "Sometimes the juice is worth the squeeze." - Marcus Luttrell, 'Service - A Navy SEAL at War'

  4. #42
    BamaNation Hall of Fame uafan4life's Avatar
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    Re: Would you vote for a short, mandatory, military/civil service for [most] US citiz

    Also, to take this in even another direction, let's say that this isn't a federally run program. What if it were a State run program?

    Let's say that, instead of having to serve in the U.S. Military, citizens had to serve in their State Militia? Would that change your opinion on such a program?
    I have yet to figure out why common sense and common courtesy are called common.
    - Unknown

    I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you've earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money.
    - Thomas Sowell

  5. #43
    BamaNation Hall of Fame uafan4life's Avatar
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    Re: Would you vote for a short, mandatory, military/civil service for [most] US citiz

    Quote Originally Posted by SavannahDare View Post
    Sure, but my view is skewed because I was one of the ones responsible for weeding out the unsuitable. I'm jaded and I admit it. I'm interested in knowing how those of you who may not have been in any of the support corps see it differently.
    Ok, well, at least you can admit it - that's the first step.


    Unfortunately, I wasn't even able to finish my cup of coffee in the service (medical) so I don't have the breadth of experience that many here do. However, in what little experience I do have, I can say that I've seen the military take people that I wouldn't have trusted to safely hold my socks for 10 minutes before their service and turn them into people that, if necessary, I could trust with my life in combat.
    I have yet to figure out why common sense and common courtesy are called common.
    - Unknown

    I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you've earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money.
    - Thomas Sowell

  6. #44
    BamaNation All-SEC willie52's Avatar
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    Re: Would you vote for a short, mandatory, military/civil service for [most] US citiz

    Quote Originally Posted by uafan4life View Post
    Care to start us off?
    I spent 22 years in the Air Force in Weather Equipment/Navaids. I've seen those who wanted to come in and those who did so because it was that or face consequences. In the 18 years as a supervisor then superintendent, I have had to get rid of two. Of the others, they came from all walks of life but the single thing that was given to them is do your job and you will be treated fairly and equitably, we work hard and play hard. Do not do it and face a wrath worse than any court or parent. I've had kids who stole, one's who thought the whole world hated them to those who would cry if the wind blew the wrong way. The common theme for them is they made something of themselves and became proud of the jobs they did. I just gave them the tools, they worked the farm. Miss them all.
    Please stand behind our troops or feel free to stand in front of them.

  7. #45

    Re: Would you vote for a short, mandatory, military/civil service for [most] US citiz

    Quote Originally Posted by SavannahDare View Post
    Of those of you in favor of it, which of you have served in the military? If so, how do you think that has shaped your stance on mandatory military service?
    The biggest morale killer isn't the heat or cold, long hours or hard work. Its like it is everywhere. People with bad attitudes who don't won't to be there. And our military both deserves and NEEDS good morale to be at their best.

    I can "understand" the view of having a forced civil service. Afterall, we "force" people to go to school until a certain age. But please leave our military as a volunteer force.

  8. #46
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    Re: Would you vote for a short, mandatory, military/civil service for [most] US citiz

    To be clear what I was talking about for service to citizenship would be for those that are non citizens to begin with.

    I served with some who were forced to serve or face some other punishment, even prison. I am not sure if they even do that anymore. Some it helped, one ended up in prison.

    Those that are opposed based on bugetary grounds I believe are correct. The short service times put us in the position of training people and not getting the return on investment. Even if the total service time is 4 years.

    I don't disagree that it would be good for a lot of people. I just don't think it is the best way to go.

  9. #47
    Administrator SavannahDare's Avatar
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    Re: Would you vote for a short, mandatory, military/civil service for [most] US citiz

    I've seen kids who desperately needed structure and to be taught self-discipline volunteer for military service and blossom into fantastic sailors, Marines, soldiers and airmen, then go on to become exceptional leaders themselves. I've also seen many volunteer under duress (usually to get out of legal consequences for their behavior). Of those, I'd say it's a coin toss as to whether they "blossom" or wilt. Many of the ones who went in because they felt they had no other option ended up in my office or the brig (sometimes both) and ultimately got separated either for their bad conduct or their character disorder.

    In general, I'd say our military is best-served by a volunteer force. Once mandatory service is introduced, you're going to incur more of a burden of having to separate the keepers from the losers, which not only wastes money (it costs to train them and most of them don't wash out until after or near the end of training), but also detracts from unit morale and cohesiveness.

    Obviously, I'm speaking in terms of peace time or during war when we're still able to meet our recruitment needs. Were a large war effort to be needed that necessitated a draft, however, I'd be in support of that (but not over an extended period of time unless it were a global war situation).
    "Sometimes the juice is worth the squeeze." - Marcus Luttrell, 'Service - A Navy SEAL at War'

  10. #48
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    Re: Would you vote for a short, mandatory, military/civil service for [most] US citiz

    Quote Originally Posted by mittman View Post
    To be clear what I was talking about for service to citizenship would be for those that are non citizens to begin with.

    I served with some who were forced to serve or face some other punishment, even prison. I am not sure if they even do that anymore. Some it helped, one ended up in prison.

    Those that are opposed based on bugetary grounds I believe are correct. The short service times put us in the position of training people and not getting the return on investment. Even if the total service time is 4 years.

    I don't disagree that it would be good for a lot of people. I just don't think it is the best way to go.
    I don't disagree and it makes good sense, in order to train someone to the level of expertise really needed takes more than two or three years and just a ball park guess, several hundred thousand dollars. I say yes just because I was military and like to stir some people up though I have seen the good it can do to have that structure in their life. Doesn't work for all but it has with most I have encountered, it is also affected by the career field taken.
    Please stand behind our troops or feel free to stand in front of them.

  11. #49
    BamaNation All-American NationalTitles15's Avatar
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    Re: Would you vote for a short, mandatory, military/civil service for [most] US citiz

    All you have to do is read the 13th Amendment to understand my basic view on the subject, for those who asked.

  12. #50

    Re: Would you vote for a short, mandatory, military/civil service for [most] US citiz

    Currently we basically use our public school system to feed children, parent children, teach our children morals, babysit our children after school, teach our children about sex and global warming, teach them what to eat and what to wear, teach them about everything it seems but math, reading and science if you look at the test scores.

    So now you propose we use our military to teach discipline, hard work, respect, etc... Wow, talk about an elite fighting force. A bunch of guys that would rather be laying on a sofa somewhere playing video games. That would really make me feel good about our national security.

    Sure, it has worked out so well with public education it is bound to be successful.

    Beyond the failure that would befall it like most government programs it robs us of freedom. There is a big difference in sitting in a chair in a room listening to testimony and being assigned a duty by the government for 2-4 years. The two aren't comparable and your insistence that it is shows you're grasping at straws.

    Look, many of the people who have good paying jobs through our government have a terrible attitude and add to the problems we face. Ever been to the post office in a major city? Ever been to the DMV in Atlanta? Have you ever been to the social security office in Dallas? Have you ever been to a federal building to conduct business? Most of those people are paid well compared to people in the private sector with equal levels of responsibility. They also pretty much know they will never be fired and don't face the daily threat of downsizing and corporate mergers and acquisitions. Now imagine if those same people were forced into that same service position for free. You think things move slow now?!?

    If you want to play the word switching game try this one. Switch the word government with king. Who wants to serve the king for 2 years? It's a silly game.
    Last edited by Dallas4Bama; April 12th, 2012 at 04:33 PM.

  13. #51
    BamaNation Hall of Fame BamainBoston's Avatar
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    Re: Would you vote for a short, mandatory, military/civil service for [most] US citiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Tidewater View Post
    You mean in the sense of having served entitles the veteran to vote in the Heinlein sense of the term citizenship, or do you mean that simply forcing young people to serve would caused them, once discharged, to appreciate what they have as citizens?
    Not flaming, just curious as to your meaning here.
    I's just kidding.

  14. #52
    BamaNation All-American RammerJammer14's Avatar
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    Re: Would you vote for a short, mandatory, military/civil service for [most] US citiz

    No. There are already deadbeats that get in as it is. I don't want a bunch of kids who don't even want to be there making a mess of things. Also, I don't think we need a military that large. What would we do with all those people? It just dilutes the professionalism and readiness of the military. It would also really diminish the pride of serving.
    -Why's it us Sergeant? Why us?
    -Because we're here lad. Nobody else. Just us.

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    -"So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

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