Today's Question: Do you support same-sex marriage?

Jon

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I've yet to see a gay argument that says this. It may well be true, but they don't frame it this way. They frame it in love. And the denial of their ability to legally declare their love for the person they love through marriage. It's all about love. And ball bearings. And balls. And no balls.

Carry on...
that's because gay groups do not want to be advocating a position of removing rights for others, it does not help their cause.

They simply want the same rights as everyone else, which is of course their right

I am advocating a position of doing away with marriage benefits for all as I don't believe it to be a proper function of Government to encourage/discourage any particular lifestyle.
 

Jon

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But if the Law says "man and woman" it is equal treatment under the law -- sounds like people want to change the law. If that's the case - do it....in every civil liberties issue in the past that is what happened - the law changed.

But I do disagree -- there are varying degrees of civil rights violations -- some deserve more attention than others....
no it is simply not equal

50 years ago the laws of many states said it was only legal to marry someone who was of your same race, was that equal treatment under the law? According to your definition above it was. Ultimately the supreme court decided rightly that it was unconstitutional and ultimately they will eventually find the same thing with gay marriage. It is really only a matter of time at this point.
 

rizolltizide

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that's because gay groups do not want to be advocating a position of removing rights for others, it does not help their cause.

They simply want the same rights as everyone else, which is of course their right

I am advocating a position of doing away with marriage benefits for all as I don't believe it to be a proper function of Government to encourage/discourage any particular lifestyle.
I"m just stating how they frame it for public consumption. Neither of us are gay, although I like to think of myself as a gay mans on occasion, we don't really know what they want.

They have the right to want the right that everyone considers their rights. I was in the right place but it must have been the wrong time.

 

CrimsonChuck

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What's the sentence for marrying someone of the same sex? 30 to life?
But it isn't just that. If you ban same sex marriage, you are denying them the right to be the "next of kin" if something happens to a spouse. There are also issues with inheriting a deceased gay spouses wealth...and social security too. And not to mention that insurance and other benefits while they are both alive.

It is clear that the bible does not allow a man to be with another man. But that doesn't mean it is our job to judge a gay person. The only one who can do that is God. I know that I sin all the time and I am trying to get better...so who am I to judge someone else? I need to worry about myself first. And I personally believe that God cares a lot more how far you've gone up the spiritual ladder versus where you are on the spiritual ladder.
 

BamaPokerplayer

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Morally, no. From a civil rights perspective, I'm fine with it. Couldn't care less.
This is how I feel. Can't they just call it something besides marriage seems like things would go over a lot smoother if they did. The christian in me is screaming no but I know some couples who do not have health coverage etc... because they can't get married.

They only question I have is what prevents fraud with a "Chuck and Larry" type situation?
 

Jon

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But it isn't just that. If you ban same sex marriage, you are denying them the right to be the "next of kin" if something happens to a spouse. There are also issues with inheriting a deceased gay spouses wealth...and social security too. And not to mention that insurance and other benefits while they are both alive.

It is clear that the bible does not allow a man to be with another man. But that doesn't mean it is our job to judge a gay person. The only one who can do that is God. I know that I sin all the time and I am trying to get better...so who am I to judge someone else? I need to worry about myself first. And I personally believe that God cares a lot more how far you've gone up the spiritual ladder versus where you are on the spiritual ladder.
here is a really good list of the legal benefits of marriage

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/marriage-rights-benefits-30190.html
 

BradtheImpaler

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This is how I feel. Can't they just call it something besides marriage seems like things would go over a lot smoother if they did. The christian in me is screaming no but I know some couples who do not have health coverage etc... because they can't get married.

They only question I have is what prevents fraud with a "Chuck and Larry" type situation?
Why should there a mechanism to do this. Fraudulent marriages between men and women occur all the time.
 

CajunCrimson

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no it is simply not equal

50 years ago the laws of many states said it was only legal to marry someone who was of your same race, was that equal treatment under the law? According to your definition above it was. Ultimately the supreme court decided rightly that it was unconstitutional and ultimately they will eventually find the same thing with gay marriage. It is really only a matter of time at this point.
Which has been my point from the beginning -- it's not time yet --when it's time -- it will happen......eventually society and "the law" come together.....

It is currently equal according to the law -- every has the opportunity to get married -- "married" by definition is the union of a man and a woman -- if you want to change the definition -- you have to change the law

In time that will happen -
 

TexasBama

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Yes to the OP
My perspective is the right being denied is the right to make a contract, thus being denied the rights inferred from entering the contract
 

Jon

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Which has been my point from the beginning -- it's not time yet --when it's time -- it will happen......eventually society and "the law" come together.....

It is currently equal according to the law -- every has the opportunity to get married -- "married" by definition is the union of a man and a woman -- if you want to change the definition -- you have to change the law

In time that will happen -
no, it's not equal. Everyone does not have the equal right under the law currently to marry whomever they chose.
 

Tide1986

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I'm making institutional limitations of civil liberties equal - either the government is limiting a groups' civil liberties or it's not. Please don't try to build a straw-man comparing rights violations, I won't go there. We should all receive equal treatment under the law, and right now, some don't.
"Equal treatment under the law" is a red herring. No one receives equal treatment under the law. For example, I don't receive checks from the government because I'm not unemployed or otherwise "needy" enough. And, it's my choice to not be in a situation to receive such checks. Furthermore, I'm not even taxed at the same rate or even pay the same absolute dollar amount in taxes as many others. So, if we want equal treatment under the law, let's all just be aware that there's a lot more work to get there than just granting a little public affirmation and acceptance to those with alternative life styles.
 

CajunCrimson

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no, it's not equal. Everyone does not have the equal right under the law currently to marry whomever they chose.
YES under the CURRENT law everyone has an equal opportunity to get married. Married is defined as "Man and Woman" .....what are you not getting?

I've already been red carded once this month -- I will depart

Roll Tide Roll!
 
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Jon

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YES under the CURRENT law everyone has an equal opportunity to get married. Married is defined as "Man and Woman" .....what are you not getting?

I've already been red carded once this month -- I will depart

Roll Tide Roll!
you never answered the question

was it equal treatment to say only whites can marry whites? Blacks marry blacks? yes or no. I don't care that it changed, was it equal at the time?
 

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