Auburn will be (IS) a first class wreck

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efd840

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Nov 23, 2009
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Re: Auburn will be a first class wreck

The teacher involved (John Flowers) is listed on their website as teaching several advanced math classes (algebra, trig, pre-cal).

Does the NCAA have core class requirements? He made a D and his grade was changed to a C. Not a big impact on GPA, but it would be huge if that lone D meant he didn't meet core curriculum requirements.
 

RTR91

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Nov 23, 2007
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Re: Auburn will be a first class wreck

The teacher involved (John Flowers) is listed on their website as teaching several advanced math classes (algebra, trig, pre-cal).

Does the NCAA have core class requirements? He made a D and his grade was changed to a C. Not a big impact on GPA, but it would be huge if that lone D meant he didn't meet core curriculum requirements.
Wait a minute. This kid that had poor grades was taking advanced math classes?
 

NoNC4Tubs

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Re: Auburn will be a first class wreck

On the prosecution angle, it might not have to be the local DA. According to their website, the Tennessee AG prosecutes public corruption (which this would be if she was paid). There's also the possibility of federal involvement.

The fact that the story is getting a lot of media coverage could also draw an elected prosecutor's interest.

I also agree on the grades-plural part. We're all focused on the 70 to 76 change because there's a lot of documentation but the story plainly states at least one other grade was changed.
Three grade changes according to the article.:cool2:
 

NoNC4Tubs

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Re: Auburn will be a first class wreck

The teacher involved (John Flowers) is listed on their website as teaching several advanced math classes (algebra, trig, pre-cal).

Does the NCAA have core class requirements? He made a D and his grade was changed to a C. Not a big impact on GPA, but it would be huge if that lone D meant he didn't meet core curriculum requirements.
Well, whatever was changed was enough that without it he can't be enrolled at auburn.:cool2:
 

Highway59

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Jan 29, 2009
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Re: Auburn will be a first class wreck

Exactly.

The impact of that small of a grade change just isn't enough. I haven't ran the exact numbers just yet, but what does that do, take a kid with a 2.24 to a 2.28? You're talking a few hundredths of a point at most. If all he needed was that small of a jump, no one would have ever backed off of him in the first place.

Again, if you're going to make any significant change in a core GPA, say a boost of two or three tenths of a point, you are either going to need to dramatically change a couple of grades (i.e. replace a D with an A), or you're going to have to incrementally boost several different grades (probably four or five classes at a minimum).

Unless institutions were told to back off from recruiting this kid, except for one. It has happened before as we well know.
 

BigEasyTider

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Nov 27, 2007
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Re: Auburn will be a first class wreck

Does the NCAA have core class requirements? He made a D and his grade was changed to a C. Not a big impact on GPA, but it would be huge if that lone D meant he didn't meet core curriculum requirements.
The NCAA does have core class requirements, and for qualification purposes the core GPA is all that matters.

Just in terms of meeting the core class requirements, however, a D to a C would not be an issue. Remember, a D, ugly as though it may be, is still a passing grade.
 

cbi1972

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Re: Auburn will be a first class wreck

The teacher involved (John Flowers) is listed on their website as teaching several advanced math classes (algebra, trig, pre-cal).

Does the NCAA have core class requirements? He made a D and his grade was changed to a C. Not a big impact on GPA, but it would be huge if that lone D meant he didn't meet core curriculum requirements.
That sounds like normal high school math to me.
 

OBMS

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Jan 9, 2011
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Re: Auburn will be a first class wreck

The teacher involved (John Flowers) is listed on their website as teaching several advanced math classes (algebra, trig, pre-cal).

Does the NCAA have core class requirements? He made a D and his grade was changed to a C. Not a big impact on GPA, but it would be huge if that lone D meant he didn't meet core curriculum requirements.
Here is why it matters----check the sliding scale and the numbers behind the decimal in the grade point average calculation.

https://web1.ncaa.org/eligibilitycenter/hs/d1_standards.pdf
 

KentuckianaBFan

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Re: Auburn will be a first class wreck

I believe that the original thread on the grade changing (can't find it) mentioned a GPA change from 1.something to 3.something...if that was the case, how many grade changes would that take...more than a couple, I'm guessing...or did i dream that?
 

bamabelle1991

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Jan 1, 2009
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Re: Auburn will be a first class wreck

I believe that the original thread on the grade changing (can't find it) mentioned a GPA change from 1.something to 3.something...if that was the case, how many grade changes would that take...more than a couple, I'm guessing...or did i dream that?
If you are attempting to change a 1.something to a 3.something over 4 years of high school, it will take way more than 3 grade changes. Just to move one tenth of a point, you would need to increase an entire letter grade in about 10 classes. This is based off of my experience working with a sorority and having girls "not make their grades." It takes a LOT. So to move from a 1. to a 3. would take changing almost all of the bad grades into something good.
 

KentuckianaBFan

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Re: Auburn will be a first class wreck

If you are attempting to change a 1.something to a 3.something over 4 years of high school, it will take way more than 3 grade changes. Just to move one tenth of a point, you would need to increase an entire letter grade in about 10 classes. This is based off of my experience working with a sorority and having girls "not make their grades." It takes a LOT. So to move from a 1. to a 3. would take changing almost all of the bad grades into something good.
Upon further reflection, I might have picked up those numbers from a news/sports article online, rather than a thread here...sorry if I caused confusion...I have a good memory, it's just short...
 

Crimson1967

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Re: Auburn will be a first class wreck

Allen Pinkett must be a big fan of the Barn's team.

"I've always felt like to have a successful team you've got to have a few bad citizens on the team," Pinkett said on WSCR-AM (670). "That's how Ohio State used to win all the time. They would have two or three guys that were criminals, and that just adds to the chemistry of the team. I think Notre Dame is growing because maybe they have some guys that are doing something worthy of a suspension, which creates edge on the football team.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...h-allen-pinkett-taken-broadcast-season-opener

Sorry to divert this thread off topic, but I thought it was funny.
 

bamabelle1991

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Re: Auburn will be a first class wreck

Upon further reflection, I might have picked up those numbers from a news/sports article online, rather than a thread here...sorry if I caused confusion...I have a good memory, it's just short...
No, I am pretty sure you read it here in a thread--an article linked here reported it. I remember it, too. I'm not sure if the article was correct, but you did read it.

As I think back on my personal GPA in college, I started off with a 2.7 (I had more fun in college that I should have, LOL) and hovered there for the first 2.5 years. The next 2.5 years (I know, I know, more fun) I consistently made a 3.0 or higher and couldn't raise that GPA to above a 2.9. That is how extremely difficult it is to raise a GPA over 4-5 years.
 

KentuckianaBFan

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Re: Auburn will be a first class wreck

No, I am pretty sure you read it here in a thread--an article linked here reported it. I remember it, too. I'm not sure if the article was correct, but you did read it.

As I think back on my personal GPA in college, I started off with a 2.7 (I had more fun in college that I should have, LOL) and hovered there for the first 2.5 years. The next 2.5 years (I know, I know, more fun) I consistently made a 3.0 or higher and couldn't raise that GPA to above a 2.9. That is how extremely difficult it is to raise a GPA over 4-5 years.
Yeah, but it would take longer, doing it the hard way...
 

RTRforever14

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Mar 29, 2012
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Re: Auburn will be a first class wreck

"""""According to Kyle, Auburn then called on June 18 "asking about a different transcript that was sent." Kyle said the transcript in Memphis still reflected a 70 and he ran an audit showing senior counselor Yvette Lynch changed two grades -- one each from two different teachers."""""

If this is true from the article, then I believe the most likely time line is that the May 17th Transcript had the 76 (probable shown as a C) and JR enrolls at AU, the teacher changes the grades and the school sends another transcript showing a D, on June 18, Auburn ask about the different transcript.. IF this was the case, it would seem that Auburn would be in trouble for practicing a player they knew to be ineligible..



 

efd840

1st Team
Nov 23, 2009
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Re: Auburn will be a first class wreck

If this is true from the article, then I believe the most likely time line is that the May 17th Transcript had the 76 (probable shown as a C) and JR enrolls at AU, the teacher changes the grades and the school sends another transcript showing a D, on June 18, Auburn ask about the different transcript.. IF this was the case, it would seem that Auburn would be in trouble for practicing a player they knew to be ineligible..
That's a pretty easy one to defend. They had one transcript that showed him to be eligible and another that showed him to be ineligible. They didn't have much exposure until they knew which was correct. Remember, two counselors actually changed his grade. Lynch, who retired at the end of the year, did it the first time. They didn't discover the second change (made by Starks-Sykes) until the NCAA came sniffing around in August.

The most likely scenario is that at least initially the compliance office was/is totally in the dark. The AU boots on the ground in Memphis had Lynch make the change letting Robinson enrolled in Auburn with the falsified transcript. Based on statements by previous posters, he probably enrolled with an unofficial one with a stamped official one to follow. All would have been fine, but the silly old teacher stumbled upon the change and fixed it (probably assuming he'd made a typo) on either 5/17 or 5/18.

Somewhere between the day he enrolled and mid-June the AU compliance department gets the second, official transcript. Thanks to the teacher's alert observation, they don't match so the compliance office calls the school to see which one is correct. The compliance department also tells the staff that there's a potential problem with Robinson's transcripts.

Well crap. The only problem now is that Lynch has retired so she can't make the change again. Enter Starks-Sykes. She makes the second change so that he again qualifies. Once again, the world's a happy place.

Until August, when the NCAA shows up in Memphis asking about Robinson. The principal pulls the records for an issue he thought was resolved in June and sees a second change. Even worse, the NCAA sees the same thing. Now the jig's up. There's no alternative but to declare him ineligible.

I can't help but believe that the NCAA's going to be visiting the plains again very soon and AU might have some real exposure here. It is quite unlike Cam. Everyone involved in Camgate was shady. Here there's an electronic paper trail. Further unlike Cam, both the principal and teacher at Wooddale High seem to be people of integrity, and Mississippi State's not going to go down alone. They'll be singing too.
 
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OBMS

1st Team
Jan 9, 2011
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Re: Auburn will be a first class wreck

efd840 - you've done your homework! Good job indeed!
Have you found the link to Lynch and De'Vinner yet?
 

efd840

1st Team
Nov 23, 2009
474
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Re: Auburn will be a first class wreck

efd840 - you've done your homework! Good job indeed!
Have you found the link to Lynch and De'Vinner yet?
I'm just reading the stories in the paper and figuring out what makes sense.

The really telling thing to me is that neither Lynch nor Starks-Sykes will talk to the local school officials. Lynch is retired, so what does she have to lose unless she's got some type of criminal exposure?

It is still possible that the scandal's only a local Memphis one, but that looks less likely as more comes out.

You've got to admire the operational plan. It really was a good one. The whole thing would have gone unnoticed but for the combination of an alert local teacher and an NCAA investigation into Mississippi State. Without the teacher, they never catch the initial change and he's eligible. Without the NCAA, they never catch the second change and he's still eligible.

Whomever's behind it (DeVinner, AU, REC, pick your bad guy) has got to be wondering how they got so unlucky.
 
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