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  1. #14
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: espn 30 for 30: Ghosts of Ole Miss

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaTide View Post
    Frankly, I enjoyed the film, and as a social studies teacher, I always love it when films basically make the audience answer the question. Additionally, I always learn a lot from these films since I'm from California, and I'm always wanting to learn more about Southern history. There's no doubt that the South was a major stage for the civil rights movement, but it wasn't the only stage. The civil rights movement occurred all across the major areas of the U.S.

    I do want to ask - what are y'alls thoughts on the song Dixie? I don't really see anything wrong with the current lyrics (apparently they've been changed a lot since the original song debuted during the Civil War), but are there really people against the song because of its original targets?
    I'm neutral about it. My family, like very many in north Alabama and eastern Tennessee, sided with the Union. As a kid, in the 1950's, I declared against segregation, when it wasn't very popular, not realizing I was following the lead of my ancestors. One great-grandfather served in the 1st Alabama Cavalry (US). One family story which was passed down had an interesting twist. My great-grandmother (half Cherokee) had used the last corn meal in the house to bake a hoe cake. A Union foraging party came through and searched the house. One soldier sniffed out the cake where my GGM had hidden it under a bed. She sneaked up behind him and almost brained him with her frying pan. Instead of the retribution you might expect, the soldier was disciplined. That was puzzle to me for years until I found that her husband, my GGF, was a respected member of the Union League who'd had all his property confiscated by the confederate State of Alabama. (He sued after the war to recover his property, but the defendants [same guys who did the confiscation] defended successfully on the grounds that the confiscation was carried out by an illegal rebel regime.) I have his diary from 1867 and it's as anti-confederate as you might expect. I have nothing from him post-Reconstruction, and I've give a lot to find out what his attitude was then. I think loyalty was rewarded, as he was the secretary to the first constitutional convention, post-war. He was a UVA graduate...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

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  3. #15
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    Re: espn 30 for 30: Ghosts of Ole Miss

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaTide View Post
    Frankly, I enjoyed the film, and as a social studies teacher, I always love it when films basically make the audience answer the question. Additionally, I always learn a lot from these films since I'm from California, and I'm always wanting to learn more about Southern history. There's no doubt that the South was a major stage for the civil rights movement, but it wasn't the only stage. The civil rights movement occurred all across the major areas of the U.S.

    I do want to ask - what are y'alls thoughts on the song Dixie? I don't really see anything wrong with the current lyrics (apparently they've been changed a lot since the original song debuted during the Civil War), but are there really people against the song because of its original targets?
    When you hear it in person, the hair will stand up on the back of your neck. It made me think of the Oxford Greys that sustained 100% casualities at the Battle of Gettysburg. I think Ole Miss earned the mascot, "Rebels" that day.
    James Meridith has to be one of the most couragous people of recent times. To have all that hate spewed at him and just go on about his business was amazing. He was also shot in the back at a later date.

  4. #16
    Administrator ValuJet's Avatar
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    Re: espn 30 for 30: Ghosts of Ole Miss

    I grew up in Jackson, MS and every time a story or movie comes out about that time frame there are connections or familiarities I am able to identify with.

    For this particular movie, my first job after college was at a bank in Jackson and James Meredith was a regular customer of ours. I did not know him personally; he was "Mr. Meredith" and even then, in 1982 he was already a legend among blacks and whites, 20 years removed from Ole Miss.

    My grandfather served with former Gov. William Winter in the Mississippi legislature in the mid to late 40's and was good friends with him. I saw Gov. Winter a few years ago - he actually spoke at my daughter's HS graduation and went out of his way to talk to her and tell her stories about her great grandfather, who died when she was 11 and she had not gotten to know him very well.

    The list could go on. From "Ghosts of Mississippi" I went to high school with the children of Judge Russell Moore who had presided over the original Beckwith trial and had the rifle stashed away in his Clinton, MS house. I remember seeing on CNN when Beckwith was booked into the Hinds County jail following his trial. A childhood friend of mine was the sheriff's deputy assigned to his processing. Medgar Evers was gunned down in his driveway about five miles from where we lived. Mississippi's Civil Rights era was all around me, whether I knew it or not.

    I grew up in a Mississippi that had segregated schools until I was in 5th grade. As one of the Ole Miss players from the program said, that was society's norm and I was too young and naive to try to figure it out. It was complex and chaotic, and some still haven't gotten it figured out. I will be long gone before enough generations have passed that this is no longer seared into the fabric of who we are.
    Last edited by ValuJet; November 1st, 2012 at 11:10 PM.

  5. #17
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: espn 30 for 30: Ghosts of Ole Miss

    Quote Originally Posted by ValuJet View Post
    I grew up in Jackson, MS and every time a story or movie comes out about that time frame there are connections or familiarities I am able to identify with.

    For this poarticular movie, my first job after college was at a bank uin Jackson and James Meredith was a regular customer of ours. I did not know him personally; he was "Mr. Meredith" and even then, in 1982 he was alreay a legend among blacks and whites, 20 years removed from Ole Miss.

    My grandfather served with former Gov. William Winter in the Mississippi legislature in the mid to late 40's and was good friends with him. I saw Gov. Winter a few years ago - he actually spoke at my daughter's HS graduation and went out of his way to talk to her and tell her stories about her great grandfather.

    The list could go on. From "Ghosts of Mississippi" I went to high school with the children of Judge Russell Moore who had presided over the original Beckwith trial and had the rifle stashed away in his Clinton, MS house. I remember seeing on CNN when Beckwith was booked into the Hinds Count jail following his trial. A childhood friend of mine was the sheriff's deputy assigned to his processing. Medgar Evers was gunned down in his driveway about five miles from where we lived. Mississippi's Civil Rights era was all around me, whether I knew it or not.

    I grew up in a Mississippi that had segregated schools until I was in 5th grade. As one of the Ole Miss players from the program said, that was society's norm and I was too young and naive to try to figure it out. It was complex and chaotic, and some still haven't gotten it figured out. I will be long gone before enough generations have passed that this is no longer seared into the fabric of who we are.
    Liz and I are watching it. Of course, she lived through it, being from there and a student at the time...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

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    “I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is.” Albert Camus

  6. #18
    BamaNation Hall of Fame lafella's Avatar
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    Re: espn 30 for 30: Ghosts of Ole Miss

    Just happened to catch it really great show so far.

  7. #19
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: espn 30 for 30: Ghosts of Ole Miss

    Quote Originally Posted by lafella View Post
    Just happened to catch it really great show so far.
    Many of the people being interviewed, my wife knew personally. Her family owned the leading restaurant in town...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

    'If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?' - Steve Jobs

    “I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is.” Albert Camus

  8. #20
    BamaNation Hall of Fame lafella's Avatar
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    Re: espn 30 for 30: Ghosts of Ole Miss

    I can understand the words of the player when he said he hoped the film would be used to heal the wounds and not fester them up again. Sad and inspiring film all at the same time. I can't imagine what it was like for her. I'm sure she has some history to be told that is even more interesting.
    Last edited by lafella; November 1st, 2012 at 11:33 PM.

  9. #21
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: espn 30 for 30: Ghosts of Ole Miss

    Quote Originally Posted by lafella View Post
    I can understand the words of the player whenhe said he hoped the film would be used to heal the wounds and not fester the up again. Sad and inspiring film all at the same time. I can't imagine what it was like for her. I'm sure she has some history to be told that is even more interesting.
    Yep. I've been being given a supplementary monologue. I hate to put it this way, but Alabama did learn from what happened at Ole Miss. Even Wallace, having changed his stripes and ridden the segregationist horse into office, had no stomach for it. So, he stuck to his deal with the Kennedys and the charade was played out. UA has turned its back on that past, in the main, but the atmosphere at Ole Miss is still poisoned. That Confederate naval banner had to be pried out of their hands. It's really sad and it's really, really complicated...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

    'If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?' - Steve Jobs

    “I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is.” Albert Camus

  10. #22
    BamaNation First Team Born_a_Tider's Avatar
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    Re: espn 30 for 30: Ghosts of Ole Miss

    Great show. I love all 30 for 30s although the Miami show was sickening.

  11. #23
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    Re: espn 30 for 30: Ghosts of Ole Miss

    I just got done watching it and thought it was well done. It certainly stirred conflicting emotions for me. I could get on a soap box on states rights, but I will save that, or maybe take it to non-sports.

    I will say this. It reminded me how much I have to teach my kids (7 and 4). There is a lot that they need to learn and surely will learn in history class in school. There is also a lot I hope they never learn.
    "The only thing I know how to do is to keep on keeping on...." Bob Dylan

  12. #24
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    Re: espn 30 for 30: Ghosts of Ole Miss

    I watched it the other night and I thought it went a long way to explaining why Ole Miss is getting rid of so many of their traditions and sympols. It seems that the school will do what ever it takes to put the riots behind them. I grew up in Alabama and so I didn't have a lot ok knowledge about what had happened in '62. Now that I'm living in Mississippi and am around a lot of Ole Miss fans, I've learned some of the traditions around Ole Miss. Personaly, I think they have some great traditions and it's a shame that they are being swept away. Like I said before, I understand a bit more why they are after watching the film, but I still don't like it. I think it's those traditions that make college football great. I could live with the school getting rid of the rebel flag, but the rest I think is going overboard. Replacing Col. Reb with the Black Bear and banning "From Dixie With Love" is just overkill in my book. On a side note, I love that song. I heard the band play it at the Grove once and it made the hair on my neck stand up. The only thing about that song that anyone had a problem with was the part where everyone chants "The south will rise again". As a guy born and raised in Alabama, I was chanting it right along with the Ole Miss faithful. I don't know how to tell Ole Miss to deal with it's past, but I think it's a shame that they feel the need to sacrifice their traditions to attone for one bad period in an otherwise rich history.
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    BamaNation All-SEC TidefaninOS's Avatar
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    Re: espn 30 for 30: Ghosts of Ole Miss

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    Yep. I've been being given a supplementary monologue. I hate to put it this way, but Alabama did learn from what happened at Ole Miss. Even Wallace, having changed his stripes and ridden the segregationist horse into office, had no stomach for it. So, he stuck to his deal with the Kennedys and the charade was played out. UA has turned its back on that past, in the main, but the atmosphere at Ole Miss is still poisoned. That Confederate naval banner had to be pried out of their hands. It's really sad and it's really, really complicated...
    Earle, can you elaborate on this? Even as a 65-year old Alabamian, I don't think I've heard about this. Thanks!
    "If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters." - Alan K. Simpson

  14. #26
    BamaNation Hall of Fame DiamondDust's Avatar
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    Re: espn 30 for 30: Ghosts of Ole Miss

    Quote Originally Posted by TidefaninOS View Post
    Earle, can you elaborate on this? Even as a 65-year old Alabamian, I don't think I've heard about this. Thanks!
    If I'm not mistaken, the stand in the schoolhouse door was done just so Wallace could save face publicly.
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