Question: What is the definition of a defenseless player?

glasscutter256

All-American
Jan 31, 2009
2,173
29
67
Huntsville
I've seen calls that were not helmet to helmet (like HaHa's on Swope) that have been called a personal foul. And others where Eddie Lacy got speared in the head by a aTm player that wasn't not called. Eddie was injured and helped off the field. Swope jumped up and quasi-taunted. I understand the NCAA is trying to protect players more, but I find no consistency or definition of when this penalty should be called.
I even thought the call of Trae Elston from Ole Miss was wrong. He was even suspended for a game. Someone please help me.
 

RollTideMang

All-American
Oct 16, 2009
3,140
0
0
St. Louis, MO
I think it has to do with a player that is focused on where the ball is rather than the players around him (i.e. a WR looking up at the ball that is being thrown his way and doesn't see the LB that is about to blindside him, so he doesn't have a chance to prepare for the hit). I could be wrong about that though.

Edit: Here's something that may help after a quick google search. Click
 

JustJim

Scout Team
Dec 5, 2011
169
10
37
Tuscaloosa, AL
I've seen calls that were not helmet to helmet (like HaHa's on Swope) that have been called a personal foul. And others where Eddie Lacy got speared in the head by a aTm player that wasn't not called. Eddie was injured and helped off the field. Swope jumped up and quasi-taunted. I understand the NCAA is trying to protect players more, but I find no consistency or definition of when this penalty should be called.
I even thought the call of Trae Elston from Ole Miss was wrong. He was even suspended for a game. Someone please help me.
You are talking about two different things here; A defenseless hit would be one where the player that was being hit was in a position to where he could not protect himself during the hit - the other plays you mentioned were considered helmet to helmet contact, or a player leading with his helmet in a a tackle.
 

glasscutter256

All-American
Jan 31, 2009
2,173
29
67
Huntsville
I think it has to do with a player that is focused on where the ball is rather than the players around him (i.e. a WR looking up at the ball that is being thrown his way and doesn't see the LB that is about to blindside him, so he doesn't have a chance to prepare for the hit). I could be wrong about that though.

Edit: Here's something that may help after a quick google search. Click
Thanks RTM. Even in that article, they define it as including helmet to helmet. Do you think Eddie Lacy's injury should have been called a personal foul? Plus, that article also is pertaining to the NFL. Not sure if the NCAA definition is different. It will be similar at least.
I just think this is a bad rule. I think it is so subjective, that each official's definition is different. There is very little objectivity to it. Here is the definition. "The rule protects defenseless players from a helmet-to-helmet hit, from being “stuffed” by an attacking player lowering his head, and from launching-type hits from an opponent." That means that safeties can no longer time their hit at the same time as receivers catch the ball. Safeties have to wait for the ball to be caught, land on their feet, and become a runner before the defense can try to tackle them. Might as well be playing flag football!
 

edwd58

All-American
Aug 2, 2006
4,710
1,390
187
It seems, from my observations, that it all depends on how "bad" the hit looks. On the play Saturday that resulted in a penalty, the flag was thrown by the back judge on the Bama sideline. He ran some thirty-five yards across the field to throw his flag. Heck, I actually thought the flag was going to be for unsportsmanlike conduct for when he jumped up and jestured to the crowd. Keep in mind that none of the other refs in the immediate area, there were at least three, threw their flags.

I think this is a bad rule because it's far too difficult to determine intent on a play like Saturday. No way I believe our player was trying to hit the guy in the head. From my seat it appeared he was being tackled from behind and was going down at the same time he was running right at our other defender. In order to not get the penalty, our second guy had to pull up and wait to see if the first guy made the tackle. What if he doesn't make the tackle and goes for a td?

If this rule stays, it should be expanded to peel back blocks on kicks, interception returns, and the such. Those are just as damaging and the recipients are just as vulnerable maybe even moreso.
 

Rasputin

Suspended
Apr 15, 2008
5,686
1
0
Yes! Exactly!

More concussions. More injuries. More brains turning to mush.
With this type of mentality, in 20 years football will not even remotely resemble the sport we have grew up to love and worship. We will turn a very tough rigorous sport into something it is not. The European soft mentality has invaded our once tough minded country and it will continue to change a game that doesn't need change.

We keep allowing people who have never even played the sport makes the rules. It truly is sad.
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
6
0
Prattville
With this type of mentality, in 20 years football will not even remotely resemble the sport we have grew up to love and worship. We will turn a very tough rigorous sport into something it is not. The European soft mentality has invaded our once tough minded country and it will continue to change a game that doesn't need change.

We keep allowing people who have never even played the sport makes the rules. It truly is sad.
I know you played at UNA and coach high school football. However, how can you make those comments when the evidence points to needed changes? ESPN has run numerous stories about former players with long term injuries varying from leg problems all the way to brain issues.
 

CrimsonProf

Hall of Fame
Dec 30, 2006
5,716
69
67
Birmingham, Alabama
I know you played at UNA and coach high school football. However, how can you make those comments when the evidence points to needed changes? ESPN has run numerous stories about former players with long term injuries varying from leg problems all the way to brain issues.

ESPN is biassssssssed.
 

Rasputin

Suspended
Apr 15, 2008
5,686
1
0
I know you played at UNA and coach high school football. However, how can you make those comments when the evidence points to needed changes? ESPN has run numerous stories about former players with long term injuries varying from leg problems all the way to brain issues.
It is a tough game played by tough individuals.

I'll say this once so let it sink in, Football is not for everyone!

Of course there are going to be injuries/deaths/long term illnesses associated with football, that is the unfortunate part of the game. But you do not change the very foundation the game is founded upon to try to deter those 1 in 1,000,000 anomalies.
 

glasscutter256

All-American
Jan 31, 2009
2,173
29
67
Huntsville
There has always been a penalty for spearing or unnecessary roughness. If a hit is blatant or late, with an intent to injure, call a penalty. Otherwise, let them play football. I don't think Haha'***** was late, blatant, and obviously didn't injure the player. The hit on Eddie Lacey, on the other hand, did cause injury to the head and wasn't called. The ball was obviously dropped before the hit took place. I don't necessarily think it should have been a penalty. However, it should be a penalty before Haha'*****. THis whole defenseless player as a receiver is just a bad rule. IMO if they are on the field and have pads on, they are not a defenseless player. They know the risk they all take.
 

BamaBuc

All-American
May 12, 2003
2,610
159
182
St. Pete Beach, FL
crimson-fan.neocities.org
With this type of mentality, in 20 years football will not even remotely resemble the sport we have grew up to love and worship. We will turn a very tough rigorous sport into something it is not.The European soft mentality has invaded our once tough minded country and it will continue to change a game that doesn't need change.

We keep allowing people who have never even played the sport makes the rules. It truly is sad.
You are right, just look at this country now! I have to admit I sure liked things back inthe '40s & '50's! Now a days people won't walk rwo or three blocks to a store, they just gotta get in the car to go!!
 

Ldlane

Hall of Fame
Nov 26, 2002
14,253
398
102
With this type of mentality, in 20 years football will not even remotely resemble the sport we have grew up to love and worship. We will turn a very tough rigorous sport into something it is not. The European soft mentality has invaded our once tough minded country and it will continue to change a game that doesn't need change.

We keep allowing people who have never even played the sport makes the rules. It truly is sad.
So is that why football was almost banned in the early 1900's by Teddy Roosevelt? I think it's because of the PAC - 10.
 

Rasputin

Suspended
Apr 15, 2008
5,686
1
0
You are right, just look at this country now! I have to admit I sure liked things back inthe '40s & '50's! Now a days people won't walk rwo or three blocks to a store, they just gotta get in the car to go!!
We were watching a documentary in class from the 1920's and 1930's the other day and it showed kids climbing a tree, crawling out to the end of the branches (about 20-30 feet high) and riding the limbs down to the ground while they hung on with their hands. All my students were in awe that these little 8-12 year olds were allowed to do such a thing.

Without a doubt, the American mentality of today is not what it used to be.
 

Rasputin

Suspended
Apr 15, 2008
5,686
1
0
So is that why football was almost banned in the early 1900's by Teddy Roosevelt? I think it's because of the PAC - 10.
http://symonsez.wordpress.com/2010/...ned-to-abolish-football-in-the-united-states/

You see, President Roosevelt had seen a photograph of Swarthmore College lineman Bob Maxwell who had been savagely beaten during a game. Seems that Penn knew that the agile, 250 pound Maxwell was the best player on Swarthmore so the team focused its effort on everyone pounding Maxwell early and often. The photo of him staggering off the field was so graphic that the Old Roughrider must have thought that the game had gotten too rough. As it turns out, he had good reason. Players wore very little padding and helmets were nothing more than a leather cap. Routinely, slugging and punching took place on the field and gang tackling was rampant. A favorite play was the “flying wedge” in which an entire team formed a V and plowed down the field like a tank. The players would often lock arms or even grab on to one another’s belts equipped with special handles. More often than not, the result was players strewn across the field and slugfests erupting. In 1905, there was roughly one-fifth the number of college football players as there are today, yet, 18 were killed and 159 severely injured in that one year alone.
Because we are obviously talking about the same game in 2010 as it was in 1910... :rolleyes:
 

Latest threads

TideFans.shop : 2024 Madness!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.