Official NEW Expansion Thread: Ga. Tech to B1G?

Ldlane

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Nov 26, 2002
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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

According to Chris Nee at Noles 24/7 Rutgers has also made it official B1G.
 

KrAzY3

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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

I still don't get the allure of adding Virginia Tech. The SEC doesn't need football powers and I'm not sure that VT is legit a football power anyway (but that IS the only thing they are good at besides bass fishing). They're somewhere between FSU and Boise St. in terms of their track record. The SEC considered Maryland, and the Big 10 looks like they are going to add them. Remember, the Big 10 is the richest conference, they're not stupid. The path to more $s is not to just try to pile more and more football powers on top of each other.

Personally, as I said before I think it's a wash in terms of Virginia Tech and Virginia if you consider their merits as is right now. If you consider that the SEC doesn't have incentive to raise the SoS (especially if they add an extra conference game), I'm not sure what the allure of VT is. VT has 65K in attendance per game. Missouri is at 62K a game, and they're not even a football power. VT reminds me of Miami...

NC State and North Carolina both have a lot to offer though. They both earn boatloads in basketball revenue, and despite struggles in football they are both at 56K in attendance. Once again, VT the mighty football power isn't really putting them too far in the rear view in terms of fan support. Some SEC teams are bound to struggle, you know the Carolina programs will still be selling tickets win or lose.

But, beyond one of the Carolina schools it is hard to say. I like Virginia because it's a don't rock the boat situation. They have more sports revenue than VT if I recall, and they aren't reliant on a strong football program for relevance. But, the more I thought about it the more I'm not in love with either. I've mentioned Notre Dame as a unrealistic long shot and there's a lot of reasons to want that, but Notre Dame wants to be catered to.

Clemson and FSU really don't offer much to the SEC, same with Georgia Tech. Oklahoma? That state is tiny... I think it makes the most sense for the SEC to just wait things out as long a they can. If North Carolina or NC State are just sitting there, ready to grab, then it forces their hand most likely, but until then? There's no rush...
 

Ldlane

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Nov 26, 2002
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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

I still don't get the allure of adding Virginia Tech. The SEC doesn't need football powers and I'm not sure that VT is legit a football power anyway (but that IS the only thing they are good at besides bass fishing). They're somewhere between FSU and Boise St. in terms of their track record. The SEC considered Maryland, and the Big 10 looks like they are going to add them. Remember, the Big 10 is the richest conference, they're not stupid. The path to more $s is not to just try to pile more and more football powers on top of ecah other.

Personally, as I said before I think it's a wash in terms of Virginia Tech and Virginia if you consider their merits as is right now. If you consider that the SEC doesn't have incentive to raise the SoS (especially if they add an extra conference game), I'm not sure what the allure of VT is. VT has 65K in attendance per game. Missouri is at 62K a game, and they're not even a football power. VT reminds me of Miami...

NC State and North Carolina both have a lot to offer though. They both earn boatloads in basketball revenue, and despite struggles in football they are both at 56K in attendance. Once again, VT the mighty football power isn't really putting them too far in the rear view in terms of fan support. Some SEC teams are bound to struggle, you know the Carolina programs will still be selling tickets win or lose.

But, beyond one of the Carolina schools it is hard to say. I like Virginia because it's a don't rock the boat situation. They have more sports revenue than VT if I recall, and they aren't reliant on a strong football program for relevance. But, the more I thought about it the more I'm not in love with either. I've mentioned Notre Dame as a unrealistic long shot and there's a lot of reasons to want that, but Notre Dame wants to be catered to.

Clemson and FSU really don't offer much to the SEC, same with Georgia Tech. Oklahoma? That state is tiny... I think it makes the most sense for the SEC to just wait things out as long a they can. If North Carolina or NC State are just sitting there, ready to grab, then it forces their hand most likely, but until then? There's no rush...
Which is one reason that I wasn't too upset with Mizzou because they bring some good roundball action!
 

KrAzY3

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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

Which is one reason that I wasn't too upset with Mizzou because they bring some good roundball action!
I hope the SEC sees the "final" round of expansions as a way to better their basketball brand. They at this point are only searching out more TV sets for football, they can't really get better, you can only jam so many in the top ten of the BCS. But, if they better their basketball brand, it's going to be more exciting and the money won't hurt either.
 

tidefanbeezer

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Sep 25, 2006
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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

I don't think the SEC wants 16 teams but I could be wrong. I anticipate that the ACC will move on UCONN and Louisville though.
Agreed. The SEC move to 14 was to stay ahead of the curve and we picked up very attractive markets. I don't think expansion to 16 is on the horizon any time soon.
 

rgw

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Sep 15, 2003
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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

With the SEC having a hard time getting schools on board with the blatant logic of a 9-game conference schedule, I don't want to think of the idiocy of trying to fit 16 teams equitably in an 8-game schedule. It can't happen. Heck, it just about calls for a 10-game conference schedule which would be murderous.

The SEC is standing pat not doubling down. Any further movement will be between the ACC, Big East, and Big 12 with the Pac-12 probably liking the idea of expansion but lacking the reasonable suitors.
 

JDCrimson

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Feb 12, 2006
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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

I agree, however, its pretty obvious the Big Ten is way out front of us as it relates to its network. I dont see how the SEC can wait much longer to roll out its own branded network. It probably also forces the SEC to move to a 9 game conference schedule (which would be pretty good for a 16 team league setup in 4 divisions). Everyone says that conferences will go to 16, which is probably right, but who does the Big Ten get to get to 16 that helps its brand and increases revenue? Who does the SEC get to get to 16 that helps its brand and increases its revenue? On the East Coast, there arent 4 good teams that meet this criteria unless you highjack the core of the ACC which will be virtually impossible to do because they want to protect their basketball dominance as a conference. To the West who do you get?

Its pretty obvious the Big Ten is merely just planting stakes at this point. They know that Rutgers and Maryland are not going to contribute to the overall wealth of the conference - they just happen to be in high population markets that gives the Big Ten a greater entry point into those markets. If the Big Ten does go to 16, I might expect them to poach Boston College or UCONN next. But I will say that all bets are off for the ACC now because I think Maryland was a charter member and a solid contributor in basketball that is peeling off. That move alone could put VA Tech and UVA in play - neither of which are really competitive in basketball within their own conference. If you dont have much pedigree in basketball there is really no reason to stay in a conference built on basketball which is what FSU is finding out.

Personally, I think the SEC would be better off continuing to build its brand off what makes it great - football. In doing so, I think if you cant get entry point with NCSU, VaTech, or UVA then I think you need to increase your hold in TX minus UT.

Notre Dame really made a mistake lining up with the ACC, imo. Their reputation is based on football - they lined up with a basketball driven conference. If Notre Dame isnt careful they are going to wind up like the Harlem Globetrotters, a traveling sideshow, based on who their scheduling partners will likely continue to be in the future.

What I dont understand is why the PTBs havent woken up and determined that it makes more since to have conference affiliation along the sport lines rather than among institutions as a whole. This way each school could develop conference agreements, revenue sharing agreements (if any) based on their competitiveness in a particular sport. In this way athletic programs could save travel costs and maximize the revenue for its athletic department. Doing so would likely increase funding in the Olympic and Title IX sports. Under the current structure, its foolish for West Virginia to send its lacrosse team to play Texas - the lacrosse teams need to play in a local conference. And Notre Dame, maybe positioning itself to do just this by affiliating with the ACC for all sports except football.
 
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KrAzY3

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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

aTm = AoT (Auburn of Texas). At least they do not wear orange.
So you are saying we already lost to Auburn? DARNIT!!!

With the SEC having a hard time getting schools on board with the blatant logic of a 9-game conference schedule
I'm not sure what is blatant about it. The SEC has no undefeated teams because of the brutality of the schedule, and the addition of Texas A&M. There is no blatant logic to add a 9th game as far as I can tell, there is some blatant logic not to. For instance, Alabama is going to play Georgia in the SECCG instead of the regular season as they would have if not for the 8 game conference schedule. A 9 game schedule and Alabama has to beat Georgia in the regular season to get the honor of playing Florida (and still would have had to play A&M). I think that's blatantly a bad idea to raise the SoS even higher.

Furthermore, with a 9th conference game there's a decent chance Alabama doesn't schedule a team like Michigan, so they can't flex their OOC muscles and garner more support. If the SEC does nothing but beat up on each other, sooner or later people will just dismiss them, they need schedule flexibility.
 
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MN-Tide

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Jan 2, 2007
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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

If the SEC (along with the Big 10, the Big 12, and the Pac 12) ever expand to 16 teams, my understanding is that each conference would set up a tournament at the end of the year. You could have a play-off with the division winners, and maybe a few wildcard teams. Then each of the four conferences would send a team to the national semi-finals and finals. The idea would be to take complete control of the process (and the money). Any team not among the 64 elite teams would be shut out of the process.

If that arrangement ever came to pass, you could have as many conference games as you liked, as no conference would be penalized for having a great team with 2 or 3 losses. You could also schedule tough nonconference games, just like in basketball.
 

rgw

Suspended
Sep 15, 2003
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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

So you are saying we already lost to Auburn? DARNIT!!!


I'm not sure what is blatant about it. The SEC has no undefeated teams because of the brutality of the schedule, and the addition of Texas A&M. There is no blatant logic to add a 9th game as far as I can tell, there is some blatant logic not to. For instance, Alabama is going to play Georgia in the SECCG instead of the regular season as they would have if not for the 8 game conference schedule. A 9 game schedule and Alabama has to beat Georgia in the regular season to get the honor of playing Florida (and still would have had to play A&M). I think that's blatantly a bad idea to raise the SoS even higher.

Furthermore, with a 9th conference game there's a decent chance Alabama doesn't schedule a team like Michigan, so they can't flex their OOC muscles and garner more support. If the SEC does nothing but beat up on each other, sooner or later people will just dismiss them, they need schedule flexibility.
Say that when we catch a good Tennessee team and Georgia at some point while Auburn, Arkansas, etc plays two bad East teams...and they win the division simply because of a better intradivisional record. As Saban said, you increase your conference by 15% then you need another game.
 

Crimson1967

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Nov 22, 2011
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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

I'd be happy if the NCAA would form a division between FBS anf FCS and kick the MAC, C-USA, etc, into there and let the big boys compete a for a real, honest to goodness NCAA Division I football championship.
 

uaintn

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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

Although the particular teams worry me, I'd be in favor of a set of four 16-team conferences for the top tier for football. Put another layer in between it and the FCS for the UAB's, Troy's, MTSU's, and Arkansas States of the world. Get it completely out from under the NCAA (and yes, that is possible). There would be plenty of money to create its own infrastructure.
 

Tide1986

Suspended
Nov 22, 2008
15,670
2
0
Birmingham, AL
Say that when we catch a good Tennessee team and Georgia at some point while Auburn, Arkansas, etc plays two bad East teams...and they win the division simply because of a better intradivisional record.
I like professional football, but this is one aspect of it that I do not like. Can anyone say, "2010 Seattle Seahawks"?
 
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Crimson1967

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Nov 22, 2011
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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

I wonder what the next move for the Big East will be. They lose Pitt and Syracuse to the ACC next year but are gaining Central Florida, Houston, SMU, Temple and Memphis as full members next year. Boise State and San Diego State join for football only next year and Navy joins for football in 2015.

So that gives them 12 football teams next year and have announced plans for a championship game. But they are losing Rutgers in 2014 to the Big Ten and Connecticut seems headed to the ACC. That will knock them down to ten members, with Navy making eleven. I doubt they'd want to have a championship game for one year and then drop it. Is there anything left in the bottom of the barrell of C-USA or the Sun Belt for them to scrape?
 

RammerJammer14

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Aug 18, 2007
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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

If the SEC (along with the Big 10, the Big 12, and the Pac 12) ever expand to 16 teams, my understanding is that each conference would set up a tournament at the end of the year. You could have a play-off with the division winners, and maybe a few wildcard teams. Then each of the four conferences would send a team to the national semi-finals and finals. The idea would be to take complete control of the process (and the money). Any team not among the 64 elite teams would be shut out of the process.

If that arrangement ever came to pass, you could have as many conference games as you liked, as no conference would be penalized for having a great team with 2 or 3 losses. You could also schedule tough nonconference games, just like in basketball.
Does the season end in April then? You can't play two games a day or back-to back days in football like you can in basketball. A 64-team post-season playoff + 12 game regular season? That's insane. Also "64" and "elite" do not belong together in this context. At that point you are on the edge of including losing programs. Just sayin.
 
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KrAzY3

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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

Say that when we catch a good Tennessee team and Georgia at some point while Auburn, Arkansas, etc plays two bad East teams...and they win the division simply because of a better intradivisional record. As Saban said, you increase your conference by 15% then you need another game.
I agree with Saban on most things, but Saban will not be around forever. He's not afraid of a 9 game schedule, and perhaps we as Alabama fans shouldn't be... as long as Saban is around. However, what other coach would you pick to go undefeated in a 9 game SEC schedule? Remember, Saban has only been undefeated once and that was with an 8 game SEC schedule. Now, we're talking about 9 SEC games, and an extra BCS game for good measure? That's beyond brutal. Imagine tacking that onto the 2009 undefeated Alabama team, you know, the one that had McElroy with a broken rib. It just becomes too much... Alabama had the #2 SoS that year, and it was only #2 because #1 had to play Alabama. You add an extra BCS game and an extra SEC game and that becomes just plain ridiculously insane.

Also, as to your example. It only matters if Alabama loses. I'm worried about championships, and Alabama won't win too many of those if they finish because Auburn. What I do know, is that for every year that Alabama draws the short straw, there will also be a year that Alabama gets the easy path. If you add a ninth game, given the level of the SEC, you make every single year harder. I don't see that as a solution to anything.
 
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lafella

Hall of Fame
Nov 27, 2006
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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

ESPN says Maryland to Big 10 a go. Regents ok the move. Rutgers expected to follow announcing Tuesday.
 
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Ldlane

Hall of Fame
Nov 26, 2002
14,253
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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

Coach K calling it:

RT @travis_sawchik: Coach K on radio: "I think the ACC is vulnerable right now." And in large part because of NC schools' football product!
 

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