Official NEW Expansion Thread: Ga. Tech to B1G?

TIDE-HSV

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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

The more I think about it, the more I tend to mostly agree with Krazy3's outlook on this situation. The TAMU addition was pushing it on competition (which really the SEC doesn't need more) but their net revenue growth potential outweighed the concerns. Any other addition needs to be similar to what the Big Ten just did: net revenue gainers, competitive non-factors.

Expansion isn't about creating a product with top-to-bottom parity, it is about television sets. In that regard, I would be hesitant to add any program with historical trends to be in the top 25 in football. We don't want to dilute the product. Virginia Tech would frankly be a good addition simply because I don't think their Beamer success is sustainable but they are a sensible footprint addition and television set adder. Do we add Virginia? I think it would be hard to get VT without them considering UVA fought so hard to get them in the ACC. Again, UVA is a nice add that doesn't rock the boat competitively. Still, the SEC probably wants a foot in NC and VA. They probably aren't looking to add two schools to get one market...they'd prefer two schools and two markets.

That is why I think they stand pat unless disruption forces further action.
One question is whether or not UNC and NCST are joined at the hip by their legislature. I've heard they are, but I don't know it it's good info or not...
 

Crimson1967

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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

NC State may be looking to break away from the shadow of the Tar Heels. But I don't know how much they help the SEC. It is a mediocre football program in a basketball state and they are #3 at best in terms of basketball prowess. I don't see them adding much other than getting to see our old buddy Mark Gottfried again.

I think either Virginia school would add more than NCSU.
 

RhodeIslandRed

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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

It would be nice to add a school that has a national presence and strong athletically.
 

RhodeIslandRed

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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

Perhaps there is a way to have the cake and eat it too, that is to have the subscription network as well as professional level moderating and technical expertise instantly. We've already discovered that a 3 premier game (playoff) season is worth $600 million per year. I'm sure the SEC provides more key matchups over about half the geography.

What the SEC may try to secure is the cable, satellite, and internet bandwidth at the national level with which to transmit the content. A broadcasting company will provide the infrastructure for the content. Hopefully theaegin may be made on the bandwidth. It will help the enterprise to be successful on year one. Football is obviously first. Basketball may be negotiated separately. Money guarantees may be made to the schools using the old contract. Excess monies may be used for guarantees to schools for the lost tier 3 programming until parity is reached or until an exit strategy is executed depending on outcome. Once the monies exceed what these most coveted schools are making will they become amenable to offers.

The point here is to utilize the relationships and strengths of a broadcasting company rather than compete against, and thereby, antagonize them.
 
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USCBAMA

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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

One question is whether or not UNC and NCST are joined at the hip by their legislature. I've heard they are, but I don't know it it's good info or not...
Don't know about nc schools, but I believe vt & UVA are, so any talk of adding vt without UVA is premature.
 

IncendiaryLemon

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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

Richmond forced the ACC to accept Virginia Tech. Blacksburg was worried about getting stuck in a dying Big East (and this was circa 2000) so Richmond got involved. Syracuse was effectively dis-invited and Tech took their spot in the first round of expansion. It was simply a question of ensuring Tech's viability in the future and using what leverage they had to do it.

Given the way things are shaking out I don't think we're a package deal. Would the SEC or the Big 10 really take two schools in the same state? How many seats are left at the table? I suspect Richmond would be happy if we went separate ways, as long as we were both in major conferences.
 

IncendiaryLemon

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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

North Carolina would not sully their academic repuation by associating with the rubes of the SEC.
You'd be surprised, the fans want nothing to do with the Big 10.

Academics really don't matter here. It's a question of culture, we simply have nothing in common with those big midwestern schools. The average Wahoo or Tarheel probably has family in the deep south, or at least they've visited before. If I had the choice do I really want to drive to Columbus Ohio for an away game? I'd much rather be in Athens. The only peer institutions in the Big Ten are Michigan and Wisconsin and that's in a purely US News & World Report sense of the word. We can just as easily look south towards UGA and Vandy, two schools that actually share our values.
 
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IncendiaryLemon

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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

One question is whether or not UNC and NCST are joined at the hip by their legislature. I've heard they are, but I don't know it it's good info or not...
I'm not sure on the particulars but apparently they share the same board of governors. Most of those guys are UNC grads though. The Pack fans are worried that UNC will make a separate deal and leave them high and dry.
 
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crimsoncamaro

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Nov 9, 2010
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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

You'd be surprised, the fans want nothing to do with the Big 10.
if thats the case, then i say start some talks with unc and vtech..i hate it for the acc, but with what has happen lately, fsu and clemson are definetly looking to leave.
 

IncendiaryLemon

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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

Clemson voted for the 50 Million dollar exit fee. That's my only data point but I think they're happy staying as long as FSU sticks around. I saw an excellent post by a Nole who said sic "it's really up to the first person who blinks." He was worried UNC and UVa would leave first. I honestly can't imagine UNC being the first one out the door, they own the ACC and they've invested a great deal of pride in it. It's not quite as bad as Texas in the Big 12 but UNC really calls the shots in the league.

UNC will probably want to bring UVa with them, wherever they go. We're sister schools, we draw the same students and we share the same values. I think they'll want to preserve that.

Also, you don't want Tech. They're our version of Auburn.
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I should mention that both UNC and UVa are quite small. We have just 14,000 undergraduate students while UNC has 18,000. We're both wealthy schools though and we compete at high level nationally in a number of sports. The UVa endowment is around 4 billion and our athletic budget is 78 million dollars a year, if I remember correctly.
 
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Ldlane

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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

The Carolina schools ARE the ACC and I don't see them leaving. There is big talk that UCONN or Louisville will replace Maryland. The "football schools" are not happy about this. Not sure I like the Gobblers in the SEC, I think their football program is middle of the road at best and basketball is non-existent.
 

KrAzY3

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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

Virginia Tech would frankly be a good addition simply because I don't think their Beamer success is sustainable but they are a sensible footprint addition and television set adder. Do we add Virginia? I think it would be hard to get VT without them considering UVA fought so hard to get them in the ACC. Again, UVA is a nice add that doesn't rock the boat competitively. Still, the SEC probably wants a foot in NC and VA. They probably aren't looking to add two schools to get one market...they'd prefer two schools and two markets.

That is why I think they stand pat unless disruption forces further action.
One question is whether or not UNC and NCST are joined at the hip by their legislature. I've heard they are, but I don't know it it's good info or not...
Considering that the SEC can't really get rid of Miss. State or Vanderbilt, I just can't see how two Virginia or North Carolina schools would be in the cards for the SEC expansion. It was mentioned earlier, but the Big 10 and SEC could work together in a sense, giving each respective school cover to leave. North Carolina is far more complicated though, since you also have Duke and Wake Forest and you would think that there are people in the state that would want to see both taken care of. In the case of Virginia and VT, it's logical that each conference would pick up one of these programs, so I'm not sure that it would have to get political.

I just absolutely hate the idea of the SEC being forced into taking VT and NC State while the Big 10 gets NC and Virginia. I'm not sure how many millions a year that the SEC would lose in that but let me give one example: Virginia and NC combine to earn 154 million in sports revenue. VT and NC State combine for 117.9. It's not that the latter two are bad additions, it is that you are 36.1 million short and getting the Auburn of each state. I'm also worried VT would nose dive (not so worried they won't, but even that would hurt a bit since you'd be displacing a 100K stadium for a 65K one, which is a loss), and they could end up with nothing but demographics to offer since their athletic department really is in poor shape.

If, and it's a big if, the Big 10 can pull Virginia and NC, then I think the SEC should not just automatically move into those two states to. They are good states, but it would put the Big 10 at the "max" for right now. So, the SEC would really look at the ACC and Big 12 and take their time deciding what is best. There would be no rush because the SEC would be the only apex predator on the hunt. They could work on Notre Dame if they wanted, they could do something brash like flirt with Illinois. They could take a look at Cincinnati (if it's just demographics, planting the SEC flag in Ohio could be huge). If you let the Big 10 have their pick, I think the SEC can just get out the map and start looking around. Once again, this is assuming the SEC can't be proactive enough to get NC and Virginia. On the flip side though, if the SEC goes first the Big 10 might just decide to stay at 14 and work on Notre Dame some more.

The suicide by schedule approach scares me a bit, because if I put some things together the SEC might have outstanding invites to both Oklahoma and VT. This is one reason I look forward to the SEC Network a bit, since Oklahoma in particular does not offer all that much to a network.
 

IncendiaryLemon

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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

If the ACC collapses Wake Forest will never play D1 Football again. They have a total student population of 4,775 - a school that small has no business playing D1 football and winning. Yet, they have. When Jimbo Fisher has nightmares, they probably involve Jim Grobe. Hell, Grobe's team won the ACC title in 2006. No small feat.

Duke I wonder about. They use football to subsidize their basketball program and I think they'd want to preserve the team in any ACC breakup. Still, who would want to take them? They don't fit the profile of a Big 10 team and they hardly make sense in the SEC or the Big 12. Do they end up in some Basketball only conference with a bunch of minors? I think that's probably their only option unless someone escalates the conferences wars and creates some 18 or 20 school behemoth.
 

rgw

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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

Oklahoma is also so incredibly dependent on recruiting Texas that I feel like giving up on their games with the Longhorns is a no-go. When I look at reasonable suitors, the pickings are getting slim...there aren't many TAMU slam dunks out there (a team that fits culturally, financially, competitively). With TAMU, the need for more depth at the middle to top of the conference is not needed. And like you pointed out, if going after VA or NC...UNC and UVA are the best choices but perhaps the hardest pulls.
 

RhodeIslandRed

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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

Here is an interesting article from ESPN that cuts straight to the chase. However, as that author no longer lives in Ohio, perhaps BTN's strategy may becoming into focus. They really aren't fighting for TV sets watching college sports in DC, NJ, and MD, they are really trying to capture their huge alumni nationwide.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id...in-big-ten-expanding-include-maryland-rutgers

Perhaps the better strategy is to expand into schools with large student bodies with more successful than average alum that. Have scattered nationwide.
 
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Ldlane

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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

If the ACC collapses Wake Forest will never play D1 Football again. They have a total student population of 4,775 - a school that small has no business playing D1 football and winning. Yet, they have. When Jimbo Fisher has nightmares, they probably involve Jim Grobe. Hell, Grobe's team won the ACC title in 2006. No small feat.

Duke I wonder about. They use football to subsidize their basketball program and I think they'd want to preserve the team in any ACC breakup. Still, who would want to take them? They don't fit the profile of a Big 10 team and they hardly make sense in the SEC or the Big 12. Do they end up in some Basketball only conference with a bunch of minors? I think that's probably their only option unless someone escalates the conferences wars and creates some 18 or 20 school behemoth.
I really don't think the SEC needs anymore top flight "Football Schools", we need to work on Basketball and Baseball.
 

crimsoncamaro

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Nov 9, 2010
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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

I really don't think the SEC needs anymore top flight "Football Schools", we need to work on Basketball and Baseball.
i agree...unc would be a great pickup with their baseball and basketball programs. when will we know the situation with the exit fee for maryland? i feel thats what everyone is waiting on to move forward. feel really good with slive in control. everything he has done so far has been top notch...do yall agree?
 

Tide1986

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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

i agree...unc would be a great pickup with their baseball and basketball programs. when will we know the situation with the exit fee for maryland? i feel thats what everyone is waiting on to move forward. feel really good with slive in control. everything he has done so far has been top notch...do yall agree?
Everything? I don't think so. Can you say, "Scam"?
 

IncendiaryLemon

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Nov 20, 2012
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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

I really don't think the SEC needs anymore top flight "Football Schools", we need to work on Basketball and Baseball.
Then you want UNC and UVa.

Question, I realize y'all have club Lacrosse. Is there any interest in fielding a varsity team? Neither UNC or UVa is going to give up Lacrosse, or Soccer for that matter.
 

Crimson1967

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Nov 22, 2011
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Re: next round of expansion already getting underway

I think Forida and Vandy have women's lacrosse. Kentucky and South Carolina's men play soccer. If four teams have a sport, the SEC will make it an official league sport. So if both of them have those sports, you can play it in the SEC.

Also, Alabama and Tennessee have women's rowing and Missouri wrestes. Vandy's women bowl.

Yes, the game is getting boring.


ETA...According to Wikipedia, Kentucky and Ole Miss have rifle teams.
 
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