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  1. #27
    BamaNation First Team tidefan26's Avatar
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    Re: Stanford proves once again why Bama's defense/offense doesn't need an overhaul.

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    A lot of it is just not knowing how kids are going to develop. Z and Hubbard were supposed to grow into that role, but they haven't. Also, it's worth noting that Anders wasn't that highly regarded out of HS, yet he developed in to that role...
    The question, to me, becomes "Do we have to have it this year"? I say no. Also, it seems like Denzel Devall has been able to get some pressure off the edge.
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  3. #28
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    Re: Stanford proves once again why Bama's defense/offense doesn't need an overhaul.

    The thing people are glossing over is that it isn't about the fact the previous titles were won without a dominant Derrick Thomas-type pass rusher but the changes in philosophy across the nation are necessitating the need for effective down four pressure that makes the use of zone blitzes an occasional change up instead of a requirement to create pressure at all. Everybody else around us is changing, we have to adjust because the likelihood the majority of the SEC is playing a tempo offense in the next 5 years is pretty good.

    We're going to need more guys who can be in the condition to play several series of downs and the linemen have got to be able to create some pressure on their own without help from the secondary and linebackers. The fact is that everybody sees the no-huddle as an opportunity to take away Saban's biggest advantages over them: his level of preparation and knowledge of how to defend almost everything you can throw at him is most evident when you huddle and allow him to check his defense into the best personnel and play.

  4. #29
    FB Moderator Bamabuzzard's Avatar
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    Re: Stanford proves once again why Bama's defense/offense doesn't need an overhaul.

    Quote Originally Posted by rgw View Post
    The thing people are glossing over is that it isn't about the fact the previous titles were won without a dominant Derrick Thomas-type pass rusher but the changes in philosophy across the nation are necessitating the need for effective down four pressure that makes the use of zone blitzes an occasional change up instead of a requirement to create pressure at all. Everybody else around us is changing, we have to adjust because the likelihood the majority of the SEC is playing a tempo offense in the next 5 years is pretty good.

    We're going to need more guys who can be in the condition to play several series of downs and the linemen have got to be able to create some pressure on their own without help from the secondary and linebackers. The fact is that everybody sees the no-huddle as an opportunity to take away Saban's biggest advantages over them: his level of preparation and knowledge of how to defend almost everything you can throw at him is most evident when you huddle and allow him to check his defense into the best personnel and play.
    I think Saban can and will adjust without giving up his core philosophy on defense. The defensive line doesn't have to go from 300 lbs to 270 per man. As Herbstreit said several times last night about when Auburn, LSU and now Stanford played and stopped Oregon's offense. It came down to penetration from the defensive line. LSU's defensive line AIN'T small by any stretch of the imagination. Their ends might be light but their interior ain't. But they get penetration. That is where our Dline has struggled. If we can adjust/tweak our scheme where it allows our defensive line to get more penetration I think we're good to go. But the next defensive play I call on the D-1 level will be my first.
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  5. #30
    BamaNation Hall of Fame RTR91's Avatar
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    Stanford proves once again why Bama's defense/offense doesn't need an overhaul.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamabuzzard View Post
    I think Saban can and will adjust without giving up his core philosophy on defense. The defensive line doesn't have to go from 300 lbs to 270 per man. As Herbstreit said several times last night about when Auburn, LSU and now Stanford played and stopped Oregon's offense. It came down to penetration from the defensive line. LSU's defensive line AIN'T small by any stretch of the imagination. Their ends might be light but their interior ain't. But they get penetration. That is where our Dline has struggled. If we can adjust/tweak our scheme where it allows our defensive line to get more penetration I think we're good to go. But the next defensive play I call on the D-1 level will be my first.
    That's the problem. The 3-4 isn't designed for the DL to get penetration. I'm not sure there are tweaks that will make DL penetration.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk, so my post may not be what I typed thanks to auto correct. Also, I may need an emoticon but cannot use one in this post.
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  6. #31
    FB Moderator Bamabuzzard's Avatar
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    Re: Stanford proves once again why Bama's defense/offense doesn't need an overhaul.

    Quote Originally Posted by RTR91 View Post
    That's the problem. The 3-4 isn't designed for the DL to get penetration. I'm not sure there are tweaks that will make DL penetration.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk, so my post may not be what I typed thanks to auto correct. Also, I may need an emoticon but cannot use one in this post.
    If I'm not mistaken many times we don't even run a true 3-4. Many times we have four down linemen. I've heard Saban mention this on and off during his time at Bama.
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  7. #32
    BamaNation Hall of Fame RTR91's Avatar
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    Stanford proves once again why Bama's defense/offense doesn't need an overhaul.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamabuzzard View Post
    If I'm not mistaken many times we don't even run a true 3-4. Many times we have four down linemen. I've heard Saban mention this on and off during his time at Bama.
    That is true. We have NTs intended for the 3-4 though. If we had Jesse and Ivory on the field together, I think we have more penetration.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk, so my post may not be what I typed thanks to auto correct. Also, I may need an emoticon but cannot use one in this post.
    "I don't know what class is but I can tell when one has it, you can tell from a mile away"
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    Rasuputin's response to my question "What benefit do tablets provide students?"
    (In an old southern trailer park redneck beer in hand marlboro light in other and camoflauge cutoff shorts man's voice) If a tablet was good enough for Moses and the 10 Commandments then by god they are good enough for my children in school today!!!!!!!

  8. #33
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    Re: Stanford proves once again why Bama's defense/offense doesn't need an overhaul.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamabuzzard View Post
    Stanford could easily be mistaken for an SEC team from a scheme standpoint. Their current HC and previous HC both implement pro style systems on both offense and defense (like we do).

    After the aTm game there seemed to be a epic meltdown on the board about these high tempo offenses could only be stopped by going lighter across the board on defense and changing our offense to the fling it around high paced spread option.

    Then came last night. Stanford ran for over 200 yards against Oregon. Ran a four man front for much of the game. They ran their offense, even turned the ball over a few times along the way, and held the vaunted, breath taking Oregon offense to 14 points.

    The ONLY adjustment I see Saban needs to make on defense is to simplify his defense a bit so it doesn't require special packages for every other play. Keep the same philosophy, same aggressiveness, but simplify it a bit. Other than that it should be business as usual.

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    The only adjustment we needed was a healthy secondary.

    I'm sorry, but if we had played A&M in game 3 it would've been a rout.
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  9. #34
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    Re: Stanford proves once again why Bama's defense/offense doesn't need an overhaul.

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    A lot of it is just not knowing how kids are going to develop. Z and Hubbard were supposed to grow into that role, but they haven't. Also, it's worth noting that Anders wasn't that highly regarded out of HS, yet he developed in to that role...
    My kingdom for a Nick Gentry.

  10. #35
    BamaNation All-American Florida Tom's Avatar
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    Re: Stanford proves once again why Bama's defense/offense doesn't need an overhaul.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonEyeshade View Post
    My kingdom for a Nick Gentry.
    He was my favorite not a lot of fan fair but when he was in the game
    he touched the QB or whoever had the football.

    I just got a feeling we are going to see someone step up in the next 2 games then everyone does in the BCG.

    I don't know what we do but all the 3 & outs Coach Nuss has to fix, I think he will.

  11. #36
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    Re: Stanford proves once again why Bama's defense/offense doesn't need an overhaul.

    Quote Originally Posted by Florida Tom View Post
    He was my favorite not a lot of fan fair but when he was in the game
    he touched the QB or whoever had the football.

    I just got a feeling we are going to see someone step up in the next 2 games then everyone does in the BCG.

    I don't know what we do but all the 3 & outs Coach Nuss has to fix, I think he will.
    I kept watching Nick's first cousins making play after play against Oregon -- pushing the line of scrimmage a yard back almost every down, moving laterally with surprising speed.

  12. #37
    FB Moderator Bamabuzzard's Avatar
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    Re: Stanford proves once again why Bama's defense/offense doesn't need an overhaul.

    Quote Originally Posted by RTR91 View Post
    That is true. We have NTs intended for the 3-4 though. If we had Jesse and Ivory on the field together, I think we have more penetration.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk, so my post may not be what I typed thanks to auto correct. Also, I may need an emoticon but cannot use one in this post.
    Yeah I agree. I remember LSU and Auburn getting penetration and it causing Oregon's offense fits. It disrupted the timing and once timing is disrupted in a play bad things tend to happen.
    The existence of God isn't determined in the thoughts of man. God exist, no matter what man thinks.

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  13. #38
    BamaNation Hall of Fame RTR91's Avatar
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    Re: Stanford proves once again why Bama's defense/offense doesn't need an overhaul.

    Quote Originally Posted by skrayper77 View Post
    The only adjustment we needed was a healthy secondary.

    I'm sorry, but if we had played A&M in game 3 it would've been a rout.
    How is Bama's defense different now than Week 3? Haha, Vinnie, and Perry were even more raw than they are now. The difference then would be that A&M's offense would have been less experienced.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bamabuzzard View Post
    Yeah I agree. I remember LSU and Auburn getting penetration and it causing Oregon's offense fits. It disrupted the timing and once timing is disrupted in a play bad things tend to happen.
    Is that a Miles-ism?
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    Rasuputin's response to my question "What benefit do tablets provide students?"
    (In an old southern trailer park redneck beer in hand marlboro light in other and camoflauge cutoff shorts man's voice) If a tablet was good enough for Moses and the 10 Commandments then by god they are good enough for my children in school today!!!!!!!

  14. #39
    BamaNation First Team graydogg85's Avatar
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    Re: Stanford proves once again why Bama's defense/offense doesn't need an overhaul.

    A scheme like Oregon's still has its merits, particularly if it is paired with a dominant offensive line. Most offensive schemes fall to pieces when the defensive front gets consistent penetration.

    One coach who is ahead of the game in this regard is Holgorsen at WVU. Yes, I realize they are 5-5 this season but their poor record is primarily the result of an absolutely abhorrent defense. His offense does some pretty innovative things that really negate inferior personnel on the offensive line. Check out Chris Brown's write-up on WVU's Orange Bowl destruction of Clemson (below). I think this might be the next direction for many up-tempo spread teams:

    "But for now, chew on this: In the Orange Bowl, where Holgorsen’s West Virginia squad bombarded Clemson for 70 points with a variety of interesting tactics, and where his quarterback racked up over 400 yards passing and six touchdown passes, how many true, Air Raid-style dropback passes did they throw? And be careful, when you make your evaluation, because you must study the offensive line on each play. On many of those downfield passes, the linemen did not pass block at all, but instead faked a screen or a run-play for play-action, or some other diversion. Holgorsen was not comfortable with his offensive line’s play all year, so he increasingly found ways to throw the ball and get players on the perimeter and in space, while barely pass blocking at all. Study the game for yourself:


    This is football deconstruction. It’s taking the building blocks of the Air Raid, of football itself, and placing them in slight variations we haven’t seen before. There’s no rule that football has to look a certain way. In this game, the chess pieces can always do the unexpected."

    Here's the link:

    http://smartfootball.com/offense/the-air-raid-offense-history-evolution-weirdness-from-mumme-to-leach-to-franklin-to-holgorsen-and-beyond

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