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  1. #27

    Re: NCAA to former Miami players: Talk or we're assuming you're guilty

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaGoose View Post
    Double standard again by the NCAA. They assume by not talking the ex Miami players are guilty however the HBO4 stopped talking and they let the Barn off as they couldn't get the players to cooperate.
    Not supporting the NCAA here, just suggesting that maybe they already have enough dirt in Miami and at this point are just looking for icing.

    But then again, it's probably just another example of double standards by the NCAA.
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  3. #28
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    Re: NCAA to former Miami players: Talk or we're assuming you're guilty

    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonaudio View Post
    Bad idea.

    The answer is to have each player sign a contract when they set foot on campus that allows punitive damages after their NCAA career is over if it's proven they broke the rules. Coaches should be required to have similar wording in their contracts. But forcing the NFL to deal with the NCAA's poor decisions / leadership isn't the answer.
    I like this idea as well. We have a similar practice at work. First paper you sign when you sit down at training is an agreement stating that if you leave for another job with another railroad in less than four years you NS a percentage of the cost of training you, roughly $32,000. The idea I guess is after four years you have paid that money back. Maybe each university could get involved individually like that.

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  4. #29
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    Re: NCAA to former Miami players: Talk or we're assuming you're guilty

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRed View Post
    at the risk of sounding like I'm trying to defend the NCAA, it could be that they are trying to come up with new tactics as a result of their inability to get former players like the HBO4 to talk.
    I believe that must be the case. They do have new rules now with more levels of violation severity. And they have made changes that punish coaches moreso than in the past.

    Going up against the auburn legal dream team has opened their eyes a bit I'd say.

  5. #30
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    Re: NCAA to former Miami players: Talk or we're assuming you're guilty

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRed View Post
    at the risk of sounding like I'm trying to defend the NCAA, it could be that they are trying to come up with new tactics as a result of their inability to get former players like the HBO4 to talk.
    That was my immediate thought. Here's the deal: The NCAA's rules (when they choose to follow them) generally follow what most of us would call a form of due process. Maybe not exactly like a court of law, but you can see the parallels. The problem for them is that they're not the courts, so they don't have subpoena power, so they can't compel anybody to talk to them about anything.

    Prior to USCw's Bush case, however, schools, administrators, coaches and athletes generally agreed to talk. The USCw / Bush case dragged out forever because everybody lawyered up and clammed up. Some folks other than the main players finally started talking, and after several years, that landed USCw on a mother of a probation.

    In the Cam case, Auburn took good notes from USCw and everybody lawyered up. But this time nobody talked. Compounding the NCAA's inability to compel information was the fact that, inexplicably, and so long as the son didn't know, a father taking bids for his son's services wasn't against their rules at the time. Now, we all believe to the bottom of our being that there's no way Cam didn't know. But without subpoena power, and with nobody talking, the case fell apart.

    So the NCAA is saying here, "OK, if you're going to take advantage of our lack of subpoena power, we're going to respond by dropping all pretense of due process. If you won't talk, we'll assume you're guilty of the worst of our suspicions. Why? Because we can, for the exact reasons we don't have subpoena power -- we're not part of the judicial system. So while we don't have the judicial system's powers, we also don't have to follow its rules. Wanna talk now?"
    Last edited by 4Q Basket Case; November 22nd, 2012 at 10:16 AM.
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  6. #31
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    Re: NCAA to former Miami players: Talk or we're assuming you're guilty

    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonaudio View Post
    Not supporting the NCAA here, just suggesting that maybe they already have enough dirt in Miami and at this point are just looking for icing.

    But then again, it's probably just another example of double standards by the NCAA.
    There is one major difference between Miami and all the *U scenarios mentioned. In this case, the NCAA has testimony from someone who was involved first hand. "I did this....". They cannot get a denial from Miami players because their becoming involved gets them into legal trouble with a federal investigation of "where did the money go?". The Miami players are choosing the lesser of two evils for themselves----and let the University take care of itself. If they deny their involvement you can bet there will be subpoenas for them to testify under oath. That brings a chance for rebuttal and will get very sticky, on a personal basis, if evidence supports Shapiro's claims. As long as they refuse to speak, no problems will arise. Once they refute, they better be able to afford good attorneys.

    In the Auburn HBO 4, the NCAA has no testimony. They have a 3rd party interview with a television network where there is no downside to refusing to cooperate with the NCAA. When asked by the NCAA to name names and confirm, they have simply refused, with no downside risk. Shapiro has named names.

    I'm not so certain future *U parties will be able to continue to use that same risk reward analysis.

    In true terms, Shapiro is a "representative of the schools athletics interests". He gave benefits to student athletes. We have talked for a couple of years about 7-on-7 teams, runners and street agents. Shapiro fits in with that group. Please note the time frame of Shapiro's allegations; the story broke in August, 2011. At that time the NCAA was deep in conversations with Will Lyles with regard to Oregon. And from this story, the NCAA was already in south Florida looking into 7-on-7 camps and recruiting practices of at least 3 SEC schools and several ACC schools:

    http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoot...yers-took-cash

    "The NCAA has been active in South Florida over the past several months, sending investigators to various 7-on-7 camps and making connections with parents and coaches. One source added that the secondary focus of the look was on the recruiting methods of at least three SEC schools and a number of ACC schools in the area."

    We didn't keep up with it because we were all too preoccupied with Cam, but Oregon is about to undergo summary disposition in their NCAA case, meaning that there is agreement on several points and that they are cooperating with the NCAA (That is why you are hearing talk of Chip Kelley to the NFL). Their issues center on benefits paid by the school to recruiting services who influenced kids in the recruiting process, and benefits to kids (recruiting trips) paid for by boosters and recruiting services. They have agreement because the recruiting services (Will Lyles---again, first person involvement) gave the information to the NCAA. That starts a landslide of questions.

    Why would he do that? Don't believe for a minute it is just out of the goodness of his heart.

    And, who is next?

    Not confirmed but Tedford's firing at Cal fits the mold. And Tedford was at Oregon before he went to Cal. The guy who was the mentor for Kenan Allen is currently the girls softball coach at a small school about 10 miles north of Berkley, CA.

    All the national pundits have warned us for several months---this is just the tip of the iceberg.

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