Objective Comparison of the Schedules and Stats of ND, Alabama, UGA

FriendlyIrish

3rd Team
Nov 22, 2012
217
0
0
So you're saying that between Wallace and Golson, Wallace is the better quarterback? And we should fear Golson? :conf3:
I am saying it is apples to oranges. The guy has an entire season under his belt. This is Golson's first season. Of course Wallace's numbers will be better ... he has experienced college play, albeit on a lower level.

Golson in high school was pretty much get the ball and make a play. He has been molded into our offense the entire year. It is common knowledge throughout ND followers that Kelly has barely cracked the offensive playbook yet. For most games out of the year, he wasn't ready for it.

Not saying you should fear Golson. But he is a good QB, and has crazy potential. The real battle of this game, IMO, is our front 7 v. your OL + RB. And to be honest, I really never thought your OL was as good as everyone said until Saturday. It is going to be a serious test for our D.
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,487
39,557
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
Bro, Bo Wallace went undefeated for East Mississippi last year and set the NJCAA single-season records for passing yards, total yards, and touchdown passes (53). EG is a redshirt freshman. Not a fair comparison at all.

It isn't always about the carries with Golson. He is a dual-threat throw first, which is exactly what we want. When it is 3rd and 8 and we have to pass, he can make a play with his legs and moves the chains, and has consistently grown throughout the year. It is why we are #20 in third down conversion percentage. His growth is evinced by our 3rd down conversion rates jumping from 42% to 56% from September to November.
Historically, Saban has done very well indeed scheming for dual-threat QBs. Manziel was the exception. I'm not sure that I've seen anyone like him since Michael Vick, and Vick wasn't nearly the passer Manziel is. I understand your wanting to draw a comparison between Golson and Manziel, but it just doesn't fly...
 

HartselleTider

Suspended
Jan 11, 2012
538
0
0
I am saying it is apples to oranges. The guy has an entire season under his belt. This is Golson's first season. Of course Wallace's numbers will be better ... he has experienced college play, albeit on a lower level.

Golson in high school was pretty much get the ball and make a play. He has been molded into our offense the entire year. It is common knowledge throughout ND followers that Kelly has barely cracked the offensive playbook yet. For most games out of the year, he wasn't ready for it.

Not saying you should fear Golson. But he is a good QB, and has crazy potential. The real battle of this game, IMO, is our front 7 v. your OL + RB. And to be honest, I really never thought your OL was as good as everyone said until Saturday. It is going to be a serious test for our D.

Bo Wallace's time in JUCO did not prepare him for the SEC. Ask Jeremiah Masoli how much scoring almost 30 TD's every year in the Pac-12 prepared him for the SEC....
 

FriendlyIrish

3rd Team
Nov 22, 2012
217
0
0
Western Kentucky is 19th in 3rd down conversions... they got beat 35-0 by Bama.


ND converts 42.5% of 3rd downs against ranked opponents, good for 25th.... Michigan converts 43.5% of 3rd downs against ranked opponents, good for 20th... they got beat 41-14 by Bama.

Ole Miss converts 39.7% of 3rd downs against ranked opponents, less than 3% difference from Notre Dame... they got beat 33-14 by Bama.


I'm not sure what your point is.
Ole Miss 3rd Down Conversion v. Ranked: 27/68
ND 3rd Down Conversion v. Ranked: 17/40

28 more attempts by Ole Miss. Misleading comparison.
 

FriendlyIrish

3rd Team
Nov 22, 2012
217
0
0
Maybe the comparison doesn't fly. I haven't followed your opposition close enough to see what dual threats you have gone against. Manziel is special, I know.

This all started because I felt comparing Mettenburger to Golson, based on their ability to have an effect on your D (by their playing styles and "recruiting rank"), didn't mean much. I know Golson and his passing ability, and I know his running ability as well. The stats won't show it. They just won't. But stat comparisons with anyone outside the SEC to inside the SEC don't work either, right? I don't think they always do, because of the level of competition. Here, I don't think EG's stats are a fair indiciation of what he is capable of, because of Kelly's focus on his player development throughout the year (which is his #1 coaching philosophy).
 

FriendlyIrish

3rd Team
Nov 22, 2012
217
0
0
And I am sure Saban is good at scheming no matter what, for any type of QB. But his record against dual threats hasn't been stellar. Saban is 59-7 all time w/ Bama (I think thats right). 6 of those 7 loses came against dual-threat quarterbacks: Tim Tebow (2008), Stephen Garcia (2010), Jordan Jefferson (2010 & 2011), Cam Newton (2010), and Johnny Football.
 

cmmiller711

All-American
Nov 24, 2006
2,070
11
57
Birmingham, AL
The only notable dual threat's we've played against this year were Manziel and Denard Robinson. We killed one and got beat by the other. BTW the last 2 dual threat QB's that had any kind of success against us were Cam Newton and Johnny Manziel. So..... all the dual threat comparisons are probably moot.
 

cmmiller711

All-American
Nov 24, 2006
2,070
11
57
Birmingham, AL
And I am sure Saban is good at scheming no matter what, for any type of QB. But his record against dual threats hasn't been stellar. Saban is 59-7 all time w/ Bama (I think thats right). 6 of those 7 loses came against dual-threat quarterbacks: Tim Tebow (2008), Stephen Garcia (2010), Jordan Jefferson (2010 & 2011), Cam Newton (2010), and Johnny Football.
Thats a little bit misleading... 2 of them (and by the time we play ND, 3 of them) won a heisman. Garcia had 7 carries for 11 yards. He beat us with the best wide receiver in college football at the time. Jordan Jefferson had 7 carries for 27 yards and struggled outside of one long pass play in 2010.

I'll give you the first game against LSU last year though. thats a good comparison, but do you think ND can hold this offense to 6 points? Granted, Bama's D is not in the same class, but still more than respectable.

So basically what we're concluding, is since December of 2008 bama has lost 7 games. 4 to QB's who ran on them. 3 to QB's who were in the middle of a heisman run (tebow probbably should have won that year over bradford). The one that fits your situation scored 6 points in regulation, and didn't even start.

I also think you are missing a year... we went 7-6 his first year.
 
Last edited:

HartselleTider

Suspended
Jan 11, 2012
538
0
0
And I am sure Saban is good at scheming no matter what, for any type of QB. But his record against dual threats hasn't been stellar. Saban is 59-7 all time w/ Bama (I think thats right). 6 of those 7 loses came against dual-threat quarterbacks: Tim Tebow (2008), Stephen Garcia (2010), Jordan Jefferson (2010 & 2011), Cam Newton (2010), and Johnny Football.

Tebow rushed for 57 yards against Bama in '08. Garcia rushed for 11 yards...it had nothing to do with him being a "dual threat". It was due to blown coverages in the secondary due to inexperience, the offensive line and McElroy giving up about a dozen sacks, and some receiver by the name of Alshon Jeffrey that's playing in the NFL.

Cam Newton rushed for 39 yards. He led the comeback through the air in the 2nd half when Mark Barron went out with a torn pec. Jordan Jefferson rushed for 43 yards in 2011, rushed for 27 yards in 2010. I'm pretty sure this is the game where Jefferson came in late for an ineffective Jarrett Lee and led the comeback.
 

Ldlane

Hall of Fame
Nov 26, 2002
14,253
398
102
Never thought of Garcia as dual anything!


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
 

HartselleTider

Suspended
Jan 11, 2012
538
0
0
Saban and most of the players on his defense are familiar with preparing for dual threat quarterbacks as effective as Golson.

If this freshman goes out and beats Bama running and throwing, then we didn't deserve to win. Simple as that.
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,487
39,557
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
And I am sure Saban is good at scheming no matter what, for any type of QB. But his record against dual threats hasn't been stellar. Saban is 59-7 all time w/ Bama (I think thats right). 6 of those 7 loses came against dual-threat quarterbacks: Tim Tebow (2008), Stephen Garcia (2010), Jordan Jefferson (2010 & 2011), Cam Newton (2010), and Johnny Football.
LOL! Jefferson didn't come out all that well against Bama and no one with a brain could call Garcia a dual threat QB. He, like Mettenberger, had a career day, but neither are dual-threat QBs. Newton and Manziel are freaks of nature. From what I've seen of Golson, he doesn't even begin to approach Newton or Manziel. I don't even think we'll play the contain against Golson. You might check the odds. You're opening as a 10.5 pt underdog...
 

FriendlyIrish

3rd Team
Nov 22, 2012
217
0
0
All I did was look at the teams that Alabama has lost to, and checked who were the QB's when they lost. To me, most seemed like dual threats. Jefferson ran for 450 yards in 2010 w/ 3.1 average yards per carry. Tebow ran for 670 with a 3.8 yards per carry. Not a crazy difference. In 2011, I don't think Jefferson was nearly the same QB.

Stephen Garcia is not as much of a dual threat QB as I thought, after looking at his stats (although in high school, he definitely was). I'm just saying after looking at the QB's, albeit some turned out to be ballers, they had dual threat capabilities that you had to look out for.

Again, I'm not comparing Golson to any of the QB's as far as current talent. What I am saying is that Saban will, in certain packages, scheme for that option. I promise you. I have watched every second of ND football this year. Any coach would feasibly scheme for his running ability.

Denard Robinson doesn't count. He can't throw the ball. That is not "dual threat."
 

cmmiller711

All-American
Nov 24, 2006
2,070
11
57
Birmingham, AL
all i was saying is that we got beat by 3 heisman winners, an LSU team that had 200+ rushing yards on us, and the best wide receiver in college football. I'm not saying that ND can't win.... they totally can. I just think you're grasping at straws trying to project the game. There is no precedent that says Golson will have any success at all.
 

HartselleTider

Suspended
Jan 11, 2012
538
0
0
Denard can definitely throw the ball. Just don't necessarily know where it's going on some occasions....


Denard vs. Notre Dame 2011:

Won 35-31 / 338 yards passing / 4 TD's


Denard vs. Notre Dame 2010:

Won 28-24 / 244 yards passing / 1 TD



Giving up 63 points, 582 yards passing, and 5 TD's in 2 games to a kid who can't throw the football isn't very good. Looks like the Irish should've taken him a bit more seriously.

Using your logic, if the Irish's "history" is to struggle that bad against a kid who can't hit the broad side of a barn, they might want to take McCarron a little more seriously than they did Shoelace, eh?
 

cmmiller711

All-American
Nov 24, 2006
2,070
11
57
Birmingham, AL
Denard Robinson doesn't count. He can't throw the ball. That is not "dual threat."
Robinson 2011- 142/238 (55%) 2173 yards 20 TD's 15 INT 139.4 QBR

Golson 2012- 166/282 (59%) 2135 yards 11 TD's 5 INT 131.9 QBR

Just because DR had a bad year doesnt mean he doesnt have similar ability.

In fact, Robinson's QB rating is 127.4 this year VS Golsons 131.9
 

FriendlyIrish

3rd Team
Nov 22, 2012
217
0
0
Denard can definitely throw the ball. Just don't necessarily know where it's going on some occasions....


Denard vs. Notre Dame 2011:

Won 35-31 / 338 yards passing / 4 TD's


Denard vs. Notre Dame 2010:

Won 28-24 / 244 yards passing / 1 TD



Giving up 63 points, 582 yards passing, and 5 TD's in 2 games to a kid who can't throw the football isn't very good. Looks like the Irish should've taken him a bit more seriously.

Using your logic, if the Irish's "history" is to struggle that bad against a kid who can't hit the broad side of a barn, they might want to take McCarron a little more seriously than they did Shoelace, eh?
Denard Robinson v. ND 2012: 13/24, 138 yds, no TD's, 4 INT's and a lost fumble. If you have watched any UM games this year (you probably haven't), you would also know he's not the starter anymore (and it is not because of injury).

Denard Robinson '12 is not a fair comparison. Our D is lightyears ahead of what it was the past two years.

I'm done with this argument of whether Saban can scheme for dual threat QB's. He is probably the best coach in the country, and ran into some pretty great QB's who could run the ball in the past. If EG gets shut down and doesn't run the ball at all, it won't be because he isn't a good dual threat QB. It will be because of Bama's great D and their ability to contain him, and CNS.
 

cmmiller711

All-American
Nov 24, 2006
2,070
11
57
Birmingham, AL
we're not saying you dont have a chance, we're saying that you aren't gonna beat us with QB play unless Golson suddenly becomes Robert Griffin.

If I were you I'd bank on running the ball and not turning it over.
 

HartselleTider

Suspended
Jan 11, 2012
538
0
0
Denard Robinson v. ND 2012: 13/24, 138 yds, no TD's, 4 INT's and a lost fumble. If you have watched any UM games this year (you probably haven't), you would also know he's not the starter anymore (and it is not because of injury).

Denard Robinson '12 is not a fair comparison. Our D is lightyears ahead of what it was the past two years.

I'm done with this argument of whether Saban can scheme for dual threat QB's. He is probably the best coach in the country, and ran into some pretty great QB's who could run the ball in the past. If EG gets shut down and doesn't run the ball at all, it won't be because he isn't a good dual threat QB. It will be because of Bama's great D and their ability to contain him, and CNS.

I have watched Michigan this year. I watched Bama drill 'em by 27. I also watched him against Notre Dame.... and Ohio St. where he was lined up in the backfield. I'm aware he's not starting at quarterback anymore.

Furthermore, this Bama defense is nowhere near as great as it was last year. It's still one of the 2 or 3 best in the country, but not on the level of last year's defense.

The point is, cherry picking games goes both ways hot shot.
 

Latest threads

TideFans.shop : 2024 Madness!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.