Murray was hit CLEAN by Dial. After an interception quarterback becomes a DEFENDER

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Snuffy Smith

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What is most significant about this is that it shows the Dial blocked Murray before Ha Ha was even tackled and as someone said he would have been the next guy who could have tackled Ha Ha.
Hopefully CNS will be lobbying on his behalf with all these points.


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TIDE-HSV

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I believe it was simply a personal foul and have stated so previously. I believed it was a personal foul for the contact above the shoulders that included head to head(in this case head to chin) regardless of the first contact. I will say however that I don't think it merits a suspension because I don't think Murray was "defenseless".
From all I've read "defenseless" means a player has no opportunity to know the hit is coming, like a receiver looking back for the ball or a passer getting blind sided.
"Defenseless" to me doesn't include blindly lolly gagging across the field because you're upset that you threw an interception.
I truly hope that Quinton has an opportunity to play in the national title game. It would be a shame if he isn't allowed to, because, as I've posted earlier, I don't think the head to head was intentional.
sip
I quoted the NCAA definition of "defenseless" above, one half of which is "focus of concentration," so a player like Murray lollygagging across the field has make himself "defenseless." Think about the ramifications. Dial would have to scream "Watch out!"
 

CapstoneTider

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I quoted the NCAA definition of "defenseless" above, one half of which is "focus of concentration," so a player like Murray lollygagging across the field has make himself "defenseless." Think about the ramifications. Dial would have to scream "Watch out!"
I like Snuffy's recommendation to make big players wear "backup warning beepers like on a dump truck"


CNN and Wolf Blitzer are doing a head injury segment right now.
 

RollTide1224

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I quoted the NCAA definition of "defenseless" above, one half of which is "focus of concentration," so a player like Murray lollygagging across the field has make himself "defenseless." Think about the ramifications. Dial would have to scream "Watch out!"
He didn't, didn't you see Murray react at the last second :).
 

CapstoneTider

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He's had to go to war with the SEC office before, the textbook case comes to mind, and they caved. I don't think he'd hesitate this time...
What was done with the textbook case? I know we vacated one of his seasons and it was more than many expected.
 

rgw

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The big thing is that I think the power of the hit with some minimal unintended helmet contact makes it look worse when you repeat the play. He led with his right shoulder and he's probably half a foot taller than Murray. There are only so many things he can do with his head when leading with his shoulder. Like I've said in another topic, it's almost like they want guys to go low in situations like that...and I think that is dirtier and far more prone to serious injury.
 

Skeeterpop

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I see a 1 QTR suspension. There is so much fuss they are going to cave, but they are not going to hold him out of the entire game.
 

cbi1972

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I quoted the NCAA definition of "defenseless" above, one half of which is "focus of concentration," so a player like Murray lollygagging across the field has make himself "defenseless." Think about the ramifications. Dial would have to scream "Watch out!"
Typically "focus of concentration" refers to receivers and return men who can reasonably be expected to have their attention on the ball to make a play, instead of on other players. It would take some egregious verbal and mental gymnastics to construe that a player is defenseless because he has a lapse of attention or is simply unaware of an opponent whose responsibility is to block him, such as what Murray exhibited when Dial obliterated him.
 

rgw

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I see a 1 QTR suspension. There is so much fuss they are going to cave, but they are not going to hold him out of the entire game.
I see nothing, it's Dial's last game and it's for a national title. Slive is not going to handicap any SEC team in that scenario and I think he would hate to do it in a kid's last game to boot. They only suspended Fairley a half against Alabama when he had a far more blatant hit than Dial's. I still hold if you look at that closely, you can tell he went with the right shoulder and tried to avoid helmet contact but there is only so much you can do in live action.
 

RTR91

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I see nothing, it's Dial's last game and it's for a national title. Slive is not going to handicap any SEC team in that scenario and I think he would hate to do it in a kid's last game to boot.
Not to turn this into an Auburn thread because I hate doing that... If Slive didn't say Auburn and Cam broke SEC by-laws, how can he suspend Dial for the game? Would be a major double standard.
 

Alasippi

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I quoted the NCAA definition of "defenseless" above, one half of which is "focus of concentration," so a player like Murray lollygagging across the field has make himself "defenseless." Think about the ramifications. Dial would have to scream "Watch out!"
Well Earle, I think we'd agree that they need to adjust their little rule because feeling sorry for one self doesn't justify a lack of concentration or focus before the play is over. If you're on the field, throw an interception and choose to participate in the continuing action you can or should expect contact at some point during the play, especially if you're jogging towards the returner.
I'm in complete agreement about the ramifications. I think the rule is ridiculously vague and hurts the game. How can a coach teach college kids, "Guys if an opposing player is running across the field and you don't think he has a focus of concentration, for goodness sakes don't hit him." Something definitive has to be come up with. What? I don't know the answer.
sip
 

MVKTR2

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I think it qualifies as unnecessary roughness as it was far enough away from the returning runner to be away from the play enough to deem it so. However that was NOT a helmet to helmet hit, Dial dipped down and put his shoulder right in the sternum with his helmet grazing Murray's facemask.
 

TIDE-HSV

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What was done with the textbook case? I know we vacated one of his seasons and it was more than many expected.
Slive wanted us to accept much tougher sanctions than the ones we proposed (and which were finally accepted, with minor exceptions). We ignored him and sent a high-level delegation to Indy to argue our case directly...
 

RTR91

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I think it qualifies as unnecessary roughness as it was far enough away from the returning runner to be away from the play enough to deem it so. However that was NOT a helmet to helmet hit, Dial dipped down and put his shoulder right in the sternum with his helmet grazing Murray's facemask.
What is the correct distance, then? He was within 8 yards of HaHa and was one of two players to stop him if he broke the tackle.
 

rgw

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He was running towards the action of where Ha Ha was heading. Again, I don't think the real argument is whether he was defenseless (he wasn't), it is whether you felt intent in the helmet to helmet contact (I don't).
 

Skeeterpop

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I think the hit was clean IMO. But I will bet that the SEC caves. Especially after Shaw's comments today. He should have said nothing until Slive had a chance to review the play.
 

rgw

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The issue is that I don't think Dial intended to clean Murray's clock with a helmet to helmet hit. The other guys who were suspended - even the ones on uncalled fouls - had malicious intent. The hit looks so bad because it is a 300+ lb guy getting a full speed hit on a 200lb guy...the helmet contact wasn't malicious intent.
 
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