Murray was hit CLEAN by Dial. After an interception quarterback becomes a DEFENDER

TIDE-HSV · Dec 3, 2012

rgw said:
He was running towards the action of where Ha Ha was heading. Again, I don't think the real argument is whether he was defenseless (he wasn't), it is whether you felt intent in the helmet to helmet contact (I don't).

Before you decide he wasn't "defenseless," you need to pay attention to the half of the NCAA definition which states "focus of concentration." It appears to me, stupid as it sounds, that any distracted player is "defenseless..."

cbi1972 · Dec 3, 2012

rgw said:
He was running towards the action of where Ha Ha was heading. Again, I don't think the real argument is whether he was defenseless (he wasn't), it is whether you felt intent in the helmet to helmet contact (I don't).

Intent is subjective, and can be demagogued by on-air personalities with a "punish mean ol' Alabama in the guise of injury prevention" agenda.

While the definition of defenseless is left vague in the NCAA rulebook, the examples given make it clear the kind of situations that they are intending to protect players in.

Code:

a. A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass.
b. A receiver whose focus is on catching a pass.
c. A kicker in the act of or just after kicking a ball.
d. A kick returner whose focus is on catching or recovering a kick in the air.
e. A player on the ground at the end of a play.
f. A player obviously out of the play.

Interpretation of this rule to include players like Murray leads to logically absurd conclusions, and enforcement of such is unprecedented. Which means Alabama will probably get screwed.

RollTide1224 · Dec 3, 2012

My dad was saying that if he is suspended that they would have to give a reprimand to the officiating crew. This crew is scheduled to work the Fiesta bowl. If true this could play into the decision whether to suspend him or not.

TIDE-HSV · Dec 3, 2012

cbi1972 said:
Intent is subjective, and can be demagogued by on-air personalities with a "punish mean ol' Alabama in the guise of injury prevention" agenda.

While the definition of defenseless is left vague in the NCAA rulebook, the examples given make it clear the kind of situations that they are intending to protect players in.

Code:

a. A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass. b. A receiver whose focus is on catching a pass. c. A kicker in the act of or just after kicking a ball. d. A kick returner whose focus is on catching or recovering a kick in the air. e. A player on the ground at the end of a play. f. A player obviously out of the play.

Interpretation of this rule to include players like Murray leads to logically absurd conclusions, and enforcement of such is unprecedented. Which means Alabama will probably get screwed.

Here is the real quote from the rule: "one who because his physical position and focus of concentration is especially vulnerable to injury." I feel sure that Shaw's statement is based on the language I've bolded...

TideMom2Boys · Dec 3, 2012

Can the SEC suspend him for a non conference game? I would think that would be up to the NCAA.

TIDE-HSV · Dec 3, 2012

TideMom2Boys said:
Can the SEC suspend him for a non conference game? I would think that would be up to the NCAA.

They would still have jurisdiction...

CapstoneTider · Dec 3, 2012

It doesn't help that CNN had a 15 minute segment on head injuries in their prime time slot and we are in a period of hysteria over head injuries. That will take precedent over any agenda against Bama imo.

Dial is in the same boat as accused day care workers in California in the 80's, or heavy metal bands with ambiguous lyrics in the 90's.

The KC Chief who killed his wife battled "Head Injuries" it's everywhere.

CincinnatiAlum · Dec 3, 2012

So if I understand this correctly ... he may have to sit out of the National championship game, his last game of his career for doing something another player had just previously done to AJ McCarron? So if they threw the flag, would we still be having this conversation? I am still so very hot about the eye poking incident!!! All the media wants to talk about is this one hit... ugh!!!
I am sorry ... but this is ridiculous! This is not a player that has been known to do this all the time ... The media is just allowed to make a mountain out of this mole hill!

Very frustrating!

BamaFan1961 · Dec 3, 2012

Not to sound callous but either he plays or doesn't. It would be like an injury and the next player has to step up. I hope he gets to play for his sake but nothing can be done about it now until someone rules or doesn't rule.

Tide1986 · Dec 3, 2012

TIDE-HSV said:
Here is the real quote from the rule: "one who because his physical position and focus of concentration is especially vulnerable to injury." I feel sure that Shaw's statement is based on the language I've bolded...

Well, I guess crack back blocks are out, and I guess any block in the back would be against a defenseless player as well and render offenders subject to suspension. You're right...absurdity would abound.

TideMan09 · Dec 3, 2012

Here's the best view I've seen yet..Murray running towards the play clearly puts himself into harms way by doing so..Dial led with his shoulder..Not his helmet..It was a hard slobber knocking hit no doubt..But..If Murray didn't run towards the play like he was going in for the tackle & he was pretty close to the ball carrier..He wouldn't have had his world lit up..Dial was in the right & broke no rules..

Snuffy Smith · Dec 3, 2012

From another Bama board...

Bama Bonzo said:
These refs just don't understand the laws of physics. When the heavily padded shoulder of an irresistable 280-pound force traveling at high speed and the lightly padded shoulder of a 205-pound pretty boy qb trotting (skipping? mincing?) are on a collision course, said qb is transformed into a concave Wile E. Coyote-type sideways "V" shape, the skullnical area of the said qb invariably moves forward as an immediate reaction, striking the skullnical area of said immovable force. So actually, Murray popped Dial and _he_ should be suspended from whatever bowl UGA ends up in. So there.

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CapstoneTider · Dec 3, 2012

TideMan09 said:
Here's the best view I've seen yet..Murray running towards the play clearly puts himself into harms way by doing so..Dial led with his shoulder..Not his helmet..It was a hard slobber knocking hit no doubt..But..If Murray didn't run towards the play like he was going in for the tackle & he was pretty close to the ball carrier..He wouldn't have had his world lit up..Dial was in the right & broke no rules..

You see a hit like that every game. Maybe we should play the race card

GrayTide · Dec 3, 2012

That was the umpire not Ritter

Crimson Cat · Dec 3, 2012

CBS/Danielson/Brando/Barnhardt have blown this totally out of proportion...it's been said a couple of them went to the officials at halftime to report the missed call to the officials. Also that Barnhardt or Brando, not sure which, sent an email to the SEC office telling them he should be suspended?...good grief.

TideMan09 said:
Here's the best view I've seen yet..Murray running towards the play clearly puts himself into harms way by doing so..Dial led with his shoulder..Not his helmet..It was a hard slobber knocking hit no doubt..But..If Murray didn't run towards the play like he was going in for the tackle & he was pretty close to the ball carrier..He wouldn't have had his world lit up..Dial was in the right & broke no rules..

rja4bama · Dec 3, 2012

Don't want to see Dail get suspended but I think there should have been a flag for helmet to helmet contact.
If it would have been AJ I think most on here would have wanted a flag.

NationalTitles18 · Dec 3, 2012

Darn fine football play. Great hit. Wake up out there, son!

TideMan09 · Dec 3, 2012

CapstoneTider said:
You see a hit like that every game. Maybe we should play the race card

HAHA..Maybe they need to put QB's in black no contact jerseys if they don't want QB's touched..Football is changing..And not for the good..It's a rough sport..Just don't play if ya can't take it..

Crimson Cat said:
CBS/Danielson/Brando/Barnhardt have blown this totally out of proportion...it's been said a couple of them went to the officials at halftime to report the missed call to the officials. Also that Barnhardt or Brando, not sure which, sent an email to the SEC office telling them he should be suspended?...good grief.

That's sickening if true..Gets the BP up that's for sure..

CapstoneTider · Dec 3, 2012

rja4bama said:
Don't want to see Dail get suspended but I think there should have been a flag for helmet to helmet contact.
If it would have been AJ I think most on here would have wanted a flag.

Yes we would want a flag, if we agreed that it was a correct call is a different story

Al A Bama · Dec 3, 2012

TideMan09 said:
Here's the best view I've seen yet..Murray running towards the play clearly puts himself into harms way by doing so..Dial led with his shoulder..Not his helmet..It was a hard slobber knocking hit no doubt..But..If Murray didn't run towards the play like he was going in for the tackle & he was pretty close to the ball carrier..He wouldn't have had his world lit up..Dial was in the right & broke no rules..

I just think that if he is suspended for the BCSNCG, it will be an injustice. Is CNN so focused because it was in Hotlanta? Looks like a good legitimate hit to me. On the close up view on CBS it looked more violent, but you just didn't see the whole sequence of events plus the shoulder/forearm hit. If he had gone after his helmet, I'm not sure that Murray would have gotten up. Looks like Dial hit him with his forearm/shoulder and pushed off with the forearm.

Again, if he is suspended for this, it will be an injustice in my honest opinion based on this view of the hit.

Murray was hit CLEAN by Dial. After an interception quarterback becomes a DEFENDER

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