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  1. #14

    Re: Strength of Schedule

    Quote Originally Posted by BAMA1979 View Post
    Check the results of the teams you just named. VERY average results except for Oklahoma. Miami, BYU, and Michigan State are not good football teams. They are Western Kentucky with better reputations.
    Notre Dame has a higher SoS... I know the numbers.

    I'm not sure how you define good teams, but I just named a list of bowl eligible teams that are considered football powers. Oklahoma won a share of the Big 12 title, Miami should have gone to the ACC championship game. I think the SEC is by far the best conference in the land, but this everyone not in the SEC sucks stuff is a little much. If you think Oklahoma would have struggled against Western Kentucky you need to check your premises. They only lost to national title contenders.

    I do think Alabama's schedule was more difficult, as I said, from a physicality aspect. Notre Dame absolutely did not play a soft schedule. They played at least one upper level team from the ACC, Big 10, Pac-12, and Big 12.

    I think the Oklahoma vs Texas A&M game will tell us a whole lot about what to expect though. Oklahoma was probably Notre Dame's best game and A&M was probably Alabama's worst. If Oklahoma wins that game, or it's very close we have cause for concern.
    Last edited by KrAzY3; December 4th, 2012 at 10:26 AM.

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  3. #15
    BamaNation All-American BAMA1979's Avatar
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    Re: Strength of Schedule

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post
    Notre Dame has a higher SoS... I know the numbers.

    I'm not sure how you define good teams, but I just named a list of bowl eligible teams that are considered football powers. Oklahoma won a share of the Big 12 title, Miami should have gone to the ACC championship game. I think the SEC is by far the best conference in the land, but this everyone not in the SEC sucks stuff is a little much. If you think Oklahoma would have struggled against Western Kentucky you need to check your premises. They only lost to national title contenders.

    I do think Alabama's schedule was more difficult, as I said, from a physicality aspect. Notre Dame absolutely did not play a soft schedule. They played at least one upper level team from the ACC, Big 10, Pac-12, and Big 12.

    I think the Oklahoma vs Texas A&M game will tell us a whole lot about what to expect though. Oklahoma was probably Notre Dame's best game and A&M was probably Alabama's worst. If Oklahoma wins that game, or it's very close we have cause for concern.
    Miami, Michigan State, and BYU don't meet my definition of a good team and I'm not sure how they would meet anyone else's, either.

    Never said that. Re-read my post.

    I also never said ND's schedule was bad. It was good, but a lot of those teams on it have reputations that are better than the product that was actually put on the field this year. For example, Boston College looks pretty good on paper, but they were 2-10.

    At the end of the day, ND played two very good teams, a bunch of middle of the pack teams from big conferences, and two or three really bad teams. We played three very good teams, a bunch of average teams, and a few really bad teams. Overall, I think the schedules are about even and that's how Sagarin ranked them.
    Last edited by BAMA1979; December 4th, 2012 at 10:38 AM.

  4. #16

    Re: Strength of Schedule

    Quote Originally Posted by BAMA1979 View Post
    Never said that. Re-read my post.
    I did but I'm still not sure what your point is.

    I'll just go with Miami, BYU, and Michigan St. Those are not the only ones, but they are generally considered football powers now. They take football seriously and are dangerous even on down years.

    Here's Sagarin's rankings:
    BYU: 36
    Michigan St.:41
    Miami: 54
    Western Kentucky: 81

    So, even though you dropped Oklahoma (9), USC (16), and Michigan (19) which I assure you Notre Dame still had to play and beat, from your statement... Western Kentucky is still Western Kentucky. This year will be the first bowl game in their history.

    I'll reiterate, Notre Dame played a tough schedule. I mean, coming into the year who would have picked them to even win one game between @Oklahoma and @USC? They deserve some credit.

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    Re: Strength of Schedule

    Hate to burst any bubbles but the game against Notre Dame will be a dogfight. It will not be a piece of cake. I believe Georgia, Florida, Texas A&M and maybe South Carolina *could* beat them as well BUT it will be another game to the finish. Be prepared for it. I believe if the players think otherwise, we'll lose this one.
    “That issue has gone under the bridge, under the next bridge, over the next dam and is gone.”
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  6. #18
    BamaNation All-American ALA2262's Avatar
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    Re: Strength of Schedule

    Quote Originally Posted by B1GTide View Post
    Every formula out there has ND's schedule rated in the top third in the country. Math can be biased by the person creating the formulas, but every formula can't be biased in their favor.
    Sagarin is not biased toward ND. He is biased toward 3 of the teams ND played. His entire Top 10 SOS is Big 12 and Pac 12 ( he forgot that MO was no longer in the B12). ND played the middle 3 (#5 Oklahoma, #6 Stanford, and #7 USC) thus getting a bump up in their SOS. The rest of Sagarin's Top 10 is #1 Kansas, #2 MO, #3 California, #4 Baylor, #8 Oklahoma State, #9 Iowa State, and #10 Arizona. Ridiculous!

    Missouri didn't even have the second toughest schedule in the SEC, much less the Nation. Ole Miss and Texas A&M, far and away, had the toughest schedules in the SEC. Sagarin has them ranked #24 and #27. Ridiculous!
    Last edited by ALA2262; December 4th, 2012 at 11:04 AM.

  7. #19
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    Re: Strength of Schedule

    Quote Originally Posted by BAMA1979 View Post
    The strength of schedule method used by some people that just totals up the wins and losses of the opponents is bogus.

    This is hypothetical, but do you think it would be more difficult to go undefeated against a schedule with 12 teams with 6-6 records, or would it be more difficult against a schedule with six 0-12 teams and six 12-0 teams? Some strength of schedule formulas out there would call those schedules equal in terms of difficulty because the number of wins and losses is equal. To me it's not even close with the latter being far more difficult if the goal is to win all of the games.
    I hate to break it to you but it would be impossible to go undefeated against six 12-0 teams; maybe six 11-1 teams.
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  8. #20

    Re: Strength of Schedule

    Quote Originally Posted by ALA2262 View Post
    Sagarin is not biased toward ND. He is biased toward 3 of the teams ND played. His entire Top 10 SOS is Big 12 and Pac 12 ( he forgot that MO was no longer in the B12). ND played the middle 3 (#5 Oklahoma, #6 Stanford, and #7 USC) thus getting a bump up in SOS. The rest of Sagarin's Top 10 is #1 Kansas, #2 Mo, #3 California, #4 Baylor, #8 Oklahoma state, #9 Iowa State, and #10 Arizona. Ridiculous.
    That is largely a result of the number of conference games. The extra conference game (instead of a non BCS conference game) pushes the SoS up a fair bit. I think that's a bit of a flaw, because as I said before Alabama playing Western Carolina did not make the rest of the schedule any easier. However, it does say a lot to play more "big time" football programs vs. a program that will come take a payday to get beat. For instance we might mock Notre Dame for almost losing to Pitt, but we took the safe route and invited Western this and that to come in and play.

  9. #21
    BamaNation All-American BAMA1979's Avatar
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    Re: Strength of Schedule

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post
    I did but I'm still not sure what your point is.

    I'll just go with Miami, BYU, and Michigan St. Those are not the only ones, but they are generally considered football powers now. They take football seriously and are dangerous even on down years.

    Here's Sagarin's rankings:
    BYU: 36
    Michigan St.:41
    Miami: 54
    Western Kentucky: 81

    So, even though you dropped Oklahoma (9), USC (16), and Michigan (19) which I assure you Notre Dame still had to play and beat, from your statement... Western Kentucky is still Western Kentucky. This year will be the first bowl game in their history.

    I'll reiterate, Notre Dame played a tough schedule. I mean, coming into the year who would have picked them to even win one game between @Oklahoma and @USC? They deserve some credit.
    You continue to put word's in my mouth, but that is ok.

    I never dropped anyone. I never questioned the fact that Notre Dame has some great wins and I have never failed to give Notre Dame credit for what they have done. The point of my original post was that some of the teams on ND's schedule were not as good this season as their reputation would make people believe.

    I also never said ND's schedule was bad. It was good, but a lot of those teams on it have reputations that are better than the product that was actually put on the field this year. For example, Boston College looks pretty good on paper, but they were 2-10. Winning at USC seems like an incredible accomplishment on paper, but the fact of the matter is that they are a 7-5 middle of the pack team in their conference. They were basically a PAC 12 version of Michigan this season. A team with ability? Absolutely, but 7-5 at the end of the day. The same could be said for Michigan. Does Michigan State have ability and a big name? Yes. Were they good this year? No. The same goes for Miami.

    At the end of the day, ND played two VERY good teams (OU, Stanford) a bunch of average to slightly above average teams from big conferences, and two terrible teams (BC, Wake). We played three VERY good teams, a bunch of average teams, and a few really bad teams. Overall, I think the schedules are about even and that's how Sagarin ranked them.
    Last edited by BAMA1979; December 4th, 2012 at 11:02 AM.

  10. #22
    BamaNation All-American BAMA1979's Avatar
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    Re: Strength of Schedule

    Quote Originally Posted by selmaborntidefan View Post
    I hate to break it to you but it would be impossible to go undefeated against six 12-0 teams; maybe six 11-1 teams.
    That's exactly my point. You haven't told me anything I didn't already say. I'm asking why would some formulas consider those two schedules equal? It's obvious that playing 12 teams with 6-6 records is easier than playing six 12-0 teams and six 0-12 teams.

  11. #23

    Re: Strength of Schedule

    Quote Originally Posted by BAMA1979 View Post
    The point of my original post was that some of the teams on ND's schedule were not as good this season as their reputation would make people believe.

    Overall, I think the schedules are about even and that's how Sagarin ranked them.
    I agree with your latter statement. As to the former, you told me to check the results and I did. I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, but telling me to check the results is an insinuation that I'm ignorant or incorrect.

  12. #24
    BamaNation All-American BAMA1979's Avatar
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    Re: Strength of Schedule

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post
    That is largely a result of the number of conference games. The extra conference game (instead of a non BCS conference game) pushes the SoS up a fair bit. I think that's a bit of a flaw, because as I said before Alabama playing Western Carolina did not make the rest of the schedule any easier. However, it does say a lot to play more "big time" football programs vs. a program that will come take a payday to get beat. For instance we might mock Notre Dame for almost losing to Pitt, but we took the safe route and invited Western this and that to come in and play.
    Yes. I think it is a flaw, as well.

    I would be interested to see the strength of schedules for the top 10 teams in the BCS ranking with each team's two or three worst opponents removed (i.e. BC, Wake for Notre Dame, WCU, FAU for Alabama, etc).

  13. #25

    Re: Strength of Schedule

    I don't care what Miami's reputation is, that is a bad football team... and has been for a while. They cannot even tackle. Ole Miss would beat 'em by 2 TD's.

    USC is a 7-5 football team, and played Notre Dame with a freshman quarterback who has never started a game. ND needed a goal line stand to finish that game off.

    Notre Dame beat Purdue, BYU, and Pittsburgh all by 3 points.

    They beat Stanford on paper, but that could easily be a loss if the refs make the right call and rule Stepfan Taylor broke the plane.

    Their best win is easily Oklahoma in Norman.... that one impressed me. But this game was 13-13 with 9 minutes left.


    Alabama played 3 teams better than Oklahoma or Stanford (UGA, aTm, LSU).... 3 teams better than Miami, BYU, or USC (Ole Miss, Mississippi St., Michigan)... Purdue and Pittsburgh are about even with Western Kentucky and Tennessee, I'll give the Irish the benefit of the doubt here.

    The common opponent is Michigan. 41-14 is much worse than 13-6.

    That's how I see it.
    Last edited by HartselleTider; December 4th, 2012 at 11:33 AM.

  14. #26
    BamaNation Hall of Fame selmaborntidefan's Avatar
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    Re: Strength of Schedule

    This is something of a futile argument as the teams will still play one another. The SoS is more an argument if everyone had a loss.
    I'll always look back as I walk away
    This memory will last for eternity
    And all of our tears will be lost in the rain
    Til I find my way back to your arms again
    But until that day you know you are
    The queen of my heart

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