Strength of Schedule

B1GTide

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blah....I can't see ND's schedule being anywhere near that tough...
Every formula out there has ND's schedule rated in the top third in the country. Math can be biased by the person creating the formulas, but every formula can't be biased in their favor.
 

Bad Pony

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Every formula out there has ND's schedule rated in the top third in the country. Math can be biased by the person creating the formulas, but every formula can't be biased in their favor.
Sure they can...it's ND afterall.. :)
 

KrAzY3

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blah....I can't see ND's schedule being anywhere near that tough...
It was a very touch schedule. They had a lot of high profile football programs. But, it was bolstered by the fact that they exclusively played BCS conference teams. They played some real cupcakes, but SoS is like RPI a bit in that just playing tougher competition can make you higher rated on paper. So, a lot of Alabama's SoS leaked away when they played Western Carolina for instance, although of course that didn't actually make the rest of the schedule any easier.

Notre Dame's schedule had breathers and no way was it as physical as an SEC schedule, but, they played Michigan St, Michigan, Miami, BYU, Oklahoma, and USC. You have to respect any team that beats all of those programs.
 

BAMA1979

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It was a very touch schedule. They had a lot of high profile football programs. But, it was bolstered by the fact that they exclusively played BCS conference teams. They played some real cupcakes, but SoS is like RPI a bit in that just playing tougher competition can make you higher rated on paper. So, a lot of Alabama's SoS leaked away when they played Western Carolina for instance, although of course that didn't actually make the rest of the schedule any easier.

Notre Dame's schedule had breathers and no way was it as physical as an SEC schedule, but, they played Michigan St, Michigan, Miami, BYU, Oklahoma, and USC. You have to respect any team that beats all of those programs.
Check the results of the teams you just named. VERY average results except for Oklahoma. Miami, BYU, and Michigan State are not good football teams. They are Western Kentucky with better reputations.
 

efd840

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I think that's a reasonable ranking. As a SEC homer I think Bama's was harder, but when you compare the two from nothing but a W/L and opponent's ranking perspective then they've played a very similar schedule.

In the end, I don't care. Just take care of business in the next game and render the whole discussion moot.
 

bamafaninOhiO

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Check the results of the teams you just named. VERY average results except for Oklahoma. Miami, BYU, and Michigan State are not good football teams. They are Western Kentucky with better reputations.
they may not be the cream of the D-1 crop, but they are better than western kentucky any way you want to slice and dice it.
 

BAMA1979

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The strength of schedule method used by some people that just totals up the wins and losses of the opponents is bogus.

This is hypothetical, but do you think it would be more difficult to go undefeated against a schedule with 12 teams with 6-6 records, or would it be more difficult against a schedule with six 0-12 teams and six 12-0 teams? Some strength of schedule formulas out there would call those schedules equal in terms of difficulty because the number of wins and losses is equal. To me it's not even close with the latter being far more difficult if the goal is to win all of the games.
 

BAMA1979

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they may not be the cream of the D-1 crop, but they are better than western kentucky any way you want to slice and dice it.
I have a feeling WKU against those teams would be a lot closer than you think. Have you watched those teams play and looked at who they have beaten? They bring a big name to the table and that is all.
 

KrAzY3

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Check the results of the teams you just named. VERY average results except for Oklahoma. Miami, BYU, and Michigan State are not good football teams. They are Western Kentucky with better reputations.
Notre Dame has a higher SoS... I know the numbers.

I'm not sure how you define good teams, but I just named a list of bowl eligible teams that are considered football powers. Oklahoma won a share of the Big 12 title, Miami should have gone to the ACC championship game. I think the SEC is by far the best conference in the land, but this everyone not in the SEC sucks stuff is a little much. If you think Oklahoma would have struggled against Western Kentucky you need to check your premises. They only lost to national title contenders.

I do think Alabama's schedule was more difficult, as I said, from a physicality aspect. Notre Dame absolutely did not play a soft schedule. They played at least one upper level team from the ACC, Big 10, Pac-12, and Big 12.

I think the Oklahoma vs Texas A&M game will tell us a whole lot about what to expect though. Oklahoma was probably Notre Dame's best game and A&M was probably Alabama's worst. If Oklahoma wins that game, or it's very close we have cause for concern.
 
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BAMA1979

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Notre Dame has a higher SoS... I know the numbers.

I'm not sure how you define good teams, but I just named a list of bowl eligible teams that are considered football powers. Oklahoma won a share of the Big 12 title, Miami should have gone to the ACC championship game. I think the SEC is by far the best conference in the land, but this everyone not in the SEC sucks stuff is a little much. If you think Oklahoma would have struggled against Western Kentucky you need to check your premises. They only lost to national title contenders.

I do think Alabama's schedule was more difficult, as I said, from a physicality aspect. Notre Dame absolutely did not play a soft schedule. They played at least one upper level team from the ACC, Big 10, Pac-12, and Big 12.

I think the Oklahoma vs Texas A&M game will tell us a whole lot about what to expect though. Oklahoma was probably Notre Dame's best game and A&M was probably Alabama's worst. If Oklahoma wins that game, or it's very close we have cause for concern.
Miami, Michigan State, and BYU don't meet my definition of a good team and I'm not sure how they would meet anyone else's, either.

Never said that. Re-read my post.

I also never said ND's schedule was bad. It was good, but a lot of those teams on it have reputations that are better than the product that was actually put on the field this year. For example, Boston College looks pretty good on paper, but they were 2-10.

At the end of the day, ND played two very good teams, a bunch of middle of the pack teams from big conferences, and two or three really bad teams. We played three very good teams, a bunch of average teams, and a few really bad teams. Overall, I think the schedules are about even and that's how Sagarin ranked them.
 
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KrAzY3

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Never said that. Re-read my post.
I did but I'm still not sure what your point is.

I'll just go with Miami, BYU, and Michigan St. Those are not the only ones, but they are generally considered football powers now. They take football seriously and are dangerous even on down years.

Here's Sagarin's rankings:
BYU: 36
Michigan St.:41
Miami: 54
Western Kentucky: 81

So, even though you dropped Oklahoma (9), USC (16), and Michigan (19) which I assure you Notre Dame still had to play and beat, from your statement... Western Kentucky is still Western Kentucky. This year will be the first bowl game in their history.

I'll reiterate, Notre Dame played a tough schedule. I mean, coming into the year who would have picked them to even win one game between @Oklahoma and @USC? They deserve some credit.
 

theballguy

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Hate to burst any bubbles but the game against Notre Dame will be a dogfight. It will not be a piece of cake. I believe Georgia, Florida, Texas A&M and maybe South Carolina *could* beat them as well BUT it will be another game to the finish. Be prepared for it. I believe if the players think otherwise, we'll lose this one.
 

ALA2262

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Every formula out there has ND's schedule rated in the top third in the country. Math can be biased by the person creating the formulas, but every formula can't be biased in their favor.
Sagarin is not biased toward ND. He is biased toward 3 of the teams ND played. His entire Top 10 SOS is Big 12 and Pac 12 ( he forgot that MO was no longer in the B12). ND played the middle 3 (#5 Oklahoma, #6 Stanford, and #7 USC) thus getting a bump up in their SOS. The rest of Sagarin's Top 10 is #1 Kansas, #2 MO, #3 California, #4 Baylor, #8 Oklahoma State, #9 Iowa State, and #10 Arizona. Ridiculous!

Missouri didn't even have the second toughest schedule in the SEC, much less the Nation. Ole Miss and Texas A&M, far and away, had the toughest schedules in the SEC. Sagarin has them ranked #24 and #27. Ridiculous!
 
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selmaborntidefan

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The strength of schedule method used by some people that just totals up the wins and losses of the opponents is bogus.

This is hypothetical, but do you think it would be more difficult to go undefeated against a schedule with 12 teams with 6-6 records, or would it be more difficult against a schedule with six 0-12 teams and six 12-0 teams? Some strength of schedule formulas out there would call those schedules equal in terms of difficulty because the number of wins and losses is equal. To me it's not even close with the latter being far more difficult if the goal is to win all of the games.
I hate to break it to you but it would be impossible to go undefeated against six 12-0 teams; maybe six 11-1 teams.
 

KrAzY3

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Sagarin is not biased toward ND. He is biased toward 3 of the teams ND played. His entire Top 10 SOS is Big 12 and Pac 12 ( he forgot that MO was no longer in the B12). ND played the middle 3 (#5 Oklahoma, #6 Stanford, and #7 USC) thus getting a bump up in SOS. The rest of Sagarin's Top 10 is #1 Kansas, #2 Mo, #3 California, #4 Baylor, #8 Oklahoma state, #9 Iowa State, and #10 Arizona. Ridiculous.
That is largely a result of the number of conference games. The extra conference game (instead of a non BCS conference game) pushes the SoS up a fair bit. I think that's a bit of a flaw, because as I said before Alabama playing Western Carolina did not make the rest of the schedule any easier. However, it does say a lot to play more "big time" football programs vs. a program that will come take a payday to get beat. For instance we might mock Notre Dame for almost losing to Pitt, but we took the safe route and invited Western this and that to come in and play.
 

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