Link: Just one more reason to be glad you have Saban & Mal running our program...

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SoINIrishFan

BamaNation Citizen
Dec 2, 2012
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I don't think it's realistic to ask the world to wait to see if there are convictions. The harassing texts sent to the girl are out there in the public domain. You can read them, if you want to make the effort. When the texts are placed in juxtaposition to the official releases, I'm not required to act like I'm a moron. PSU initially took the deny, deny, deny track - and where did it get them in the end? A young girl is dead. A member of the football team - with a history - is involved deeply, one way or the other. What ND needs to do at this point is to scrape away at the wound and try to find truth. Smearing the decedent and her family isn't going to work. PSU tried that. We have mechanisms in place to keep this from happening, and they evolved from sad history - and they predate Saban, although he has strengthened the system. This is something Notre Dame needs to face up to and make a clean slate. If they don't, what the non-catholic world is going to conclude is that it's the same old story as priest abuse - cover it up. That is the medicine, sour as it might taste...
I think Notre Dame handle it in the best way they knew how, with the information Ms. Seeberg gave them. Here is a snippet from the Prosecutor's office:

Contact: Michael A. Dvorak Prosecuting Attorney
235-9618
Charging Decision Made inSeeberg Allegations South Bend, IN-
Our office has concluded its review of the investigation into the allegations made by Elizabeth See berg concerning events occurring on August 31, 2010 and September 2, 2010 in S1.Joseph County, Indiana.
The reports on this matter were prepared by Notre Dame Security Police Department (NDSPD), who investigated the allegations made by Ms. See berg and presented these reports to our office on November 17,2010.
Together with deputy prosecutors from my office, we have reviewed the police reports and conducted research into Indiana law on several issues raised by this investigation.
Further, we met with the parents of Elizabeth Seeberg and their attorney on December 1, 2010 and discussed with them much of the contents of the investigation.
There were two separate allegations made by Ms. Seeberg against two separate individuals, both of whom were students at the University of Notre Dame and one of which who was also an athlete.
First, there was the allegation of Sexual Batter/, specifically the touching of her breasts. Secondly, there was a complaint about text messages received by Ms. Seeberg. She never made an allegation of rape nor does the evidence even suggest a rape occurred as some media outlets have mistakenly reported.


office has declined to file criminal charges against either of the two individuals named in this investigation, and we decline to identify these individuals as they are not being charged with any crimes.

The investigation by NDSPD included the collection of evidence and the statements of event witnesses. This includes two statements from Ms. Seeberg, statements from the two suspects, and a statement from a female friend, all of whom were present during the evening of August 31, 2010. Only Ms. Seeberg and the student-athlete were present during the alleged battery. Conflicts exist among the witnesses' accounts of the events given to the police. Subpoenaed cell phone records are inconsistent with parts of the complaint itself.
Police also recovered the text messages of September 2, 2010 between Ms. Seeberg and the student who sent them. The content of the text messages sent does not rise to the level of a criminal act as defined by Indiana's Harassment statute.2 The student subjectively believed Ms. Seeberg's complaint was false and therefore he had a legitimate purpose for his text messages.

Interpret that as you will. I didn't accuse you of being a moron, because I know differently, but I was disappointed in the one sided shot of this magnitude.

I think more importantly, is the public's rush to condemn, without a shred of fact or truth. Was this a tragedy, undoubtedly, but I don't see how ND smeared the young girl at all. What I do see is others wanting a pound of flesh for this tragedy, as they do with most everything now. Give the public their blood, whether it is appropriate or not, and then they'll sort it out after they've been sated. It's a sad state of affairs.





 
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RedStar

Hall of Fame
Jan 28, 2005
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That's kind of harsh. Sure better safety measures should have been taken to prevent his fall, but I wouldn't say BK killed the kid...maybe more like he holds some responsibility in the kid's death.

ND definitely has its share of dark secrets, but Catholicism hasn't had a very good light shined on it in some time. What can be done?
From what I understand Declan didn't want to go up the scissor lift to record that day because of wind. I could be completely wrong, but I thought it came out that Kelly and/or the staff encouraged him to climb despite the dangerous conditions.
 

SoINIrishFan

BamaNation Citizen
Dec 2, 2012
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No sir, you are mistaken. There was no cover up. This was front page news 2 years ago. If you do a search, you can see the dated articles for yourself.

Your comment proves Tide-HSV was correct there was a cover-up since as you state it took place 2 years ago and is just now becoming "public" for the most part. You are correct it took this big of a stage to get someone to come forward to try to shed light on a subject that was in the dark.
 

cuda.1973

Hall of Fame
Dec 6, 2009
8,506
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Allen, Texas
Just like all the stories about pervert priests wasn't covered up. How long did that take to come out?

Which is why my Catholic aunts admit to being Catholics, but not members of the Catholic Church.

This will be my only comment on this. Thinking of all the stuff the Church has covered up makes me glad we defected.
 

Jon

Hall of Fame
Feb 22, 2002
15,622
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it's an interesting and incredibly saddening set of cases.

To the Dome fan earlier in the thread. Please honor the earlier request and provide links to credible sources with information on these cases. I'll read them, but I won't search for them. Until I am presented with credible conflicting information I just let history be my guide and assume that the Catholics are just trying to make it all go away....

and Earl, thanks for posting read a bit about Lizzy a few years ago and then again recently. Didn't know of the other one.
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
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No sir, you are mistaken. There was no cover up. This was front page news 2 years ago. If you do a search, you can see the dated articles for yourself.
From the family's remarks tonight plus the Washington Post article, it's clear that there are many who do not agree with you. I'm not happy with what I've heard and read today...
 

RammerJammer14

Hall of Fame
Aug 18, 2007
14,488
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Ring 66? Classy.

Anyways, I know its a cool connection to make and all, but I fail to see what being catholic has to do with any coverup, unless the church somehow directly intervened with the police department?

Thanks for the article though I didn't know all that was going down at ND.
 

Aledinho

All-SEC
Feb 22, 2007
1,377
3
57
Here is a snippet from the Prosecutor's office:

Contact: Michael A. Dvorak Prosecuting Attorney
235-9618

...Police also recovered the text messages of September 2, 2010 between Ms. Seeberg and the student who sent them. The content of the text messages sent does not rise to the level of a criminal act as defined by Indiana's Harassment statute.2 The student subjectively believed Ms. Seeberg's complaint was false and therefore he had a legitimate purpose for his text messages.

Melinda Henneberger said:
Yet after Lizzy went to the police, a friend of the player’s sent her a series of texts that frightened her as much as anything that had happened in the player’s dorm room. “Don’t do anything you would regret,” one of them said. “Messing with Notre Dame football is a bad idea.
If the text messages are as stated, a prosecuting attorney who would call those texts legitimate has very little credibility.
 

butchp

3rd Team
Oct 14, 2005
206
0
35
58
I think Notre Dame handle it in the best way they knew how, with the information Ms. Seeberg gave them. Here is a snippet from the Prosecutor's office:

Contact: Michael A. Dvorak Prosecuting Attorney
235-9618
Charging Decision Made inSeeberg Allegations South Bend, IN-
Our office has concluded its review of the investigation into the allegations made by Elizabeth See berg concerning events occurring on August 31, 2010 and September 2, 2010 in S1.Joseph County, Indiana.
The reports on this matter were prepared by Notre Dame Security Police Department (NDSPD), who investigated the allegations made by Ms. See berg and presented these reports to our office on November 17,2010.
Together with deputy prosecutors from my office, we have reviewed the police reports and conducted research into Indiana law on several issues raised by this investigation.
Further, we met with the parents of Elizabeth Seeberg and their attorney on December 1, 2010 and discussed with them much of the contents of the investigation.
There were two separate allegations made by Ms. Seeberg against two separate individuals, both of whom were students at the University of Notre Dame and one of which who was also an athlete.
First, there was the allegation of Sexual Batter/, specifically the touching of her breasts. Secondly, there was a complaint about text messages received by Ms. Seeberg. She never made an allegation of rape nor does the evidence even suggest a rape occurred as some media outlets have mistakenly reported.


office has declined to file criminal charges against either of the two individuals named in this investigation, and we decline to identify these individuals as they are not being charged with any crimes.

The investigation by NDSPD included the collection of evidence and the statements of event witnesses. This includes two statements from Ms. Seeberg, statements from the two suspects, and a statement from a female friend, all of whom were present during the evening of August 31, 2010. Only Ms. Seeberg and the student-athlete were present during the alleged battery. Conflicts exist among the witnesses' accounts of the events given to the police. Subpoenaed cell phone records are inconsistent with parts of the complaint itself.
Police also recovered the text messages of September 2, 2010 between Ms. Seeberg and the student who sent them. The content of the text messages sent does not rise to the level of a criminal act as defined by Indiana's Harassment statute.2 The student subjectively believed Ms. Seeberg's complaint was false and therefore he had a legitimate purpose for his text messages.

Interpret that as you will. I didn't accuse you of being a moron, because I know differently, but I was disappointed in the one sided shot of this magnitude.

I think more importantly, is the public's rush to condemn, without a shred of fact or truth. Was this a tragedy, undoubtedly, but I don't see how ND smeared the young girl at all. What I do see is others wanting a pound of flesh for this tragedy, as they do with most everything now. Give the public their blood, whether it is appropriate or not, and then they'll sort it out after they've been sated. It's a sad state of affairs.





Note that the university police are the ones that did the investigation.
 

SoINIrishFan

BamaNation Citizen
Dec 2, 2012
36
0
0
No one should be happy a tragedy of this magnitude happened. It's sad, and unnecessary. The worst part of the situation is an individual trying to make a name off of this; using half truths, biases, and sensationalism.

From what I understand, (2 couples) 4 college kids were in a dorm, on a date. They were with the other couple, then they(other couple) walked out of the dorm. The remaining couple started to make out. He touched her breast, and she froze. She said his phone rang, and the other couple came back in. Did he force his self on her? I don't know, but she was on a date with him, and in his dorm. I don't know if it was forced. Did she tell him no, or ask him to stop? She doesn't say. She only says she froze. The witnesses did not say there was an assault, and the accused denied the accusation. There was no evidence via DNA that indicated a crime had been committed. Was there poor judgement involved? It seems apparent there was, but I don't see anything criminal here. Of course, I'm not an attorney. From this point, the tragedy begins.

As I stated before, everyone wants a pound of flesh when there is a tragedy. Was there a crime committed? It was determined there wasn't. Was it a tragedy the young lady made the choice she did? Absolutely. I don't understand how the university is responsible for her decision. Her decision was tragic.

From the family's remarks tonight plus the Washington Post article, it's clear that there are many who do not agree with you. I'm not happy with what I've heard and read today...
 

SoINIrishFan

BamaNation Citizen
Dec 2, 2012
36
0
0
Yes sir. With the information given from the accuser, it was at best a simple assault, with a he said/ she said situation. There was nothing to support the claim she made. The information, in it's entirety was given to the prosecutor, and covered with the accuser's parents and attorney. If there was even a shred of evidence to support the claim, it would have been pursued.

Note that the university police are the ones that did the investigation.
 

1958againbear

1st Team
Jan 27, 2011
693
0
0
No sir, you are mistaken. There was no cover up. This was front page news 2 years ago. If you do a search, you can see the dated articles for yourself.
Let's see. And you are a spokesman for the university and/or football team, someone in the school's administration, campus police, legal counsel, risk management, the South Bend police department or DA's office, and so on? Maybe just a supportive fan who dislikes seeing any tarnish on the golden dome/helmets. Whatever, whichever, you just happen to be prepared to espouse the party line ad infinitum and venture forth to fight the Irish's battles off the football field. Hmmm... Only five days since the SECCG and the stakes are being ramped up, the battle lines drawn aside from just the X's and O's of the game, the carrying forth of the good name of ND on the other school's fan boards. Spare us Mr. Irishfan. Defend yourself to the ABC's and other media who might dare to publicize your story and spare us from more and more intrusions in the coming weeks that will detract from our discussion, enjoyment, and anticipation of the BCS championship.
 

SoINIrishFan

BamaNation Citizen
Dec 2, 2012
36
0
0
I'm certain no one here has ever had a friend try to stand up for you, and said things you, and they, wished they hadn't in the spur of the moment.

If the text messages are as stated, a prosecuting attorney who would call those texts legitimate has very little credibility.
 
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