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  1. #27
    BamaNation Second Team FriendlyIrish's Avatar
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    Re: Heisman projection

    Quote Originally Posted by crmsntd91 View Post
    When a person from the media ask you about a talented player what is the coach supposed to say? Nah, we didn't gameplan for him, he sucks big time. NO. I didn't say you don't make note of him on the field, but he doesn't alter your style of play. Jarvis Jones and Clowney do. We had an extra blocker on Jarvis every single play. People have to do the same with Clowney. Te'o just doesn't demand that respect, sorry.
    Of course. But Shaw said (even with his great defense), something along the lines of "it is rare that your entire offense has to scheme around one player."

    When people say that Manti is good, not great, I immediately think that they are completely stupid. Why? Because I think that NFL draft scouts and NFL GM's are smart. Would they draft a kid in the top ten simply because he is good, plays for Notre Dame, and has a good story (jokes aside about ND)? No. They wouldn't.

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  3. #28
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    Re: Heisman projection

    Manti Te'o - ND LB: 101 tackles, 1.5 sacks, 7 INT's, 4 PD's
    Phillip Steward - Houston LB: 127 tackles, 11.0 sacks, 3 INT's, 3 PD's

    One of these will finish 2nd in the Heisman race. The other you've never heard of.

    Te'o is a good player, but the only stat that pops out is his INT's. His tackles are average, his sacks are well below average, his PD's are average. He has a fun name to say and he plays for the #1 team in the country.

    Case closed.
    Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice? Congratulations, you'd probably make a pretty good con-man.

  4. #29
    BamaNation Second Team BillDee's Avatar
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    Re: Heisman projection

    OK, so the young man's grandmother and girlfriend died and were buried. That's tragic and makes a great story, but just stop already. I'm sure other college football players lost family members and/or girlfriends, but I don't see their losses trotted out ad nauseum every time their names are mentioned.

  5. #30
    BamaNation Second Team FriendlyIrish's Avatar
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    Re: Heisman projection

    Quote Originally Posted by RedStar View Post
    Manti Te'o - ND LB: 101 tackles, 1.5 sacks, 7 INT's, 4 PD's
    Phillip Steward - Houston LB: 127 tackles, 11.0 sacks, 3 INT's, 3 PD's

    One of these will finish 2nd in the Heisman race. The other you've never heard of.

    Te'o is a good player, but the only stat that pops out is his INT's. His tackles are average, his sacks are well below average, his PD's are average. He has a fun name to say and he plays for the #1 team in the country.

    Case closed.
    Hahahahahahahha @ case closed.

    Johnny Manziel Stats: 273 Completions, 68.3 completion %, 3419 yards, 24 TDs, 8 Interceptions
    Case Keenum Stats: 428 completions, 71.0 completion %, 5631 yards, 48 touchdowns, 5 interceptions.

    One of these players is going to win the heisman. The other didn't get an invite.

  6. #31
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    Re: Heisman projection

    Quote Originally Posted by FriendlyIrish View Post
    Of course. But Shaw said (even with his great defense), something along the lines of "it is rare that your entire offense has to scheme around one player."

    When people say that Manti is good, not great, I immediately think that they are completely stupid. Why? Because I think that NFL draft scouts and NFL GM's are smart. Would they draft a kid in the top ten simply because he is good, plays for Notre Dame, and has a good story (jokes aside about ND)? No. They wouldn't.
    Defensive players I'd take above Te'o in the NFL draft:

    Jarvis Jones
    Jadaveon Clowney
    Dee Milliner
    Kevin Minter
    Eric Reid
    Barkavious Mingo
    Sam Montgomery
    Johnthan Banks
    CJ Moseley

    ... and that's just off the top of my head. No one's saying he's a bad player. He's just not as good as the hype he's getting.

    He's won 6 postseason awards this season, more than any player in CFB history. Unless you think he's the best defender to ever play the game, then there's no other conclusion to jump to other than the fact that he's over-hyped. He doesn't deserve to be the single most decorated player in CFB history. That's a fact.
    Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice? Congratulations, you'd probably make a pretty good con-man.

  7. #32
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    Re: Heisman projection

    Would Manti have even been invited to New York if Notre Dame had two losses like the Aggies? If a person honestly thinks the answer to that question is "yes"..then I can respect that persons thinking he deserves the Heisman. If their answer to that question is "no"...then I cannot understand how that person would think he deserves the Heisman.

    Friendly Irish: Might want to also include the rushing stats in your comparison. I think that same year Keenum scored three TD's on 57 rushes for a total of 35 yards.
    Last edited by harleyspoon; December 7th, 2012 at 03:11 PM.

  8. #33
    BamaNation First Team crmsntd91's Avatar
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    Re: Heisman projection

    I am also not a fan of the Heisman period, or at least what it has become.

    It has become a hype award. Not Manti's fault, he is deserving, of some, of the awards he has received. To me though, the most outstanding players I have watched all season is Jarvis Jones and Clowney. They are simply the most dominating players in CFB. Due to their teams not being in the NC they aren't receiving the love they should.

    Johnny Manziel is the most exciting player to watch and that is why he is in NYC. Colin Klein because he led the underdog KSt to the brink of a National Championship game. Te'o because he is simply the best player on the best team. I actually think Tuitt is a better player but whatever.

    At the end of the day I just don't think any of the guys in NYC should win the Heisman, but if one does it should be Manziel for what he has done as a Freshman in the SEC.

    Quote Originally Posted by FriendlyIrish View Post
    LOL, well if you say you don't think Charles Woodson should have won that defeats my argument!!! Dam you!
    "We have an opponent in this state that we work every day, 365 days a year, to dominate."

  9. #34
    BamaNation First Team crmsntd91's Avatar
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    Re: Heisman projection

    You act like they haven't been wrong thousands of times before. He may be great, but he isn't putting up "great" numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by FriendlyIrish View Post
    Of course. But Shaw said (even with his great defense), something along the lines of "it is rare that your entire offense has to scheme around one player."

    When people say that Manti is good, not great, I immediately think that they are completely stupid. Why? Because I think that NFL draft scouts and NFL GM's are smart. Would they draft a kid in the top ten simply because he is good, plays for Notre Dame, and has a good story (jokes aside about ND)? No. They wouldn't.
    "We have an opponent in this state that we work every day, 365 days a year, to dominate."

  10. #35
    BamaNation Second Team FriendlyIrish's Avatar
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    Re: Heisman projection

    Quote Originally Posted by RedStar View Post
    Defensive players I'd take above Te'o in the NFL draft:

    Jarvis Jones
    Jadaveon Clowney
    Dee Milliner
    Kevin Minter
    Eric Reid
    Barkavious Mingo
    Sam Montgomery
    Johnthan Banks
    CJ Moseley

    ... and that's just off the top of my head. No one's saying he's a bad player. He's just not as good as the hype he's getting.
    Dude, you should take this stuff to NFL Gm's. Seriously.

  11. #36
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    Re: Heisman projection

    Quote Originally Posted by FriendlyIrish View Post
    Hahahahahahahha @ case closed.

    Johnny Manziel Stats: 273 Completions, 68.3 completion %, 3419 yards, 24 TDs, 8 Interceptions
    Case Keenum Stats: 428 completions, 71.0 completion %, 5631 yards, 48 touchdowns, 5 interceptions.

    One of these players is going to win the heisman. The other didn't get an invite.
    Believe it or not, you're backing up my point. The hype machine is greater than any single player. I don't think Keenum necessarily deserved to win last year, but he definitely deserved to be a finalist.

    FWIW, it's also a down year for Heisman finalists. I don't think any of this years finalists would have been invited to last years ceremony.
    Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice? Congratulations, you'd probably make a pretty good con-man.

  12. #37
    BamaNation Second Team FriendlyIrish's Avatar
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    Re: Heisman projection

    Quote Originally Posted by crmsntd91 View Post
    I am also not a fan of the Heisman period, or at least what it has become.

    It has become a hype award. Not Manti's fault, he is deserving, of some, of the awards he has received. To me though, the most outstanding players I have watched all season is Jarvis Jones and Clowney. They are simply the most dominating players in CFB. Due to their teams not being in the NC they aren't receiving the love they should.

    Johnny Manziel is the most exciting player to watch and that is why he is in NYC. Colin Klein because he led the underdog KSt to the brink of a National Championship game. Te'o because he is simply the best player on the best team. I actually think Tuitt is a better player but whatever.

    At the end of the day I just don't think any of the guys in NYC should win the Heisman, but if one does it should be Manziel for what he has done as a Freshman in the SEC.
    And I completely agree with you. It is a hype award. In my heart of hearts, I honestly would not be upset at all if Manziel won it. I would not say he was overrated, and I would not say he didn't deserve it. I think he definitely deserves it.

    I just don't think Manti is just a "good" player.

  13. #38
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    Re: Heisman projection

    Quote Originally Posted by FriendlyIrish View Post
    Dude, you should take this stuff to NFL Gm's. Seriously.
    You skipped over this, so I'll ask again:

    He's won 6 postseason awards this season, more than any player in CFB history. Unless you think he's the best defender to ever play the game, then there's no other conclusion to jump to other than the fact that he's over-hyped. He doesn't deserve to be the single most decorated player in CFB history. That's a fact.

    Is he over-hyped, or does he deserve to be the single most decorated player in CFB history?
    Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice? Congratulations, you'd probably make a pretty good con-man.

  14. #39
    BamaNation Second Team FriendlyIrish's Avatar
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    Re: Heisman projection

    Quote Originally Posted by RedStar View Post
    Believe it or not, you're backing up my point. The hype machine is greater than any single player. I don't think Keenum necessarily deserved to win last year, but he definitely deserved to be a finalist.

    FWIW, it's also a down year for Heisman finalists. I don't think any of this years finalists would have been invited to last years ceremon
    And I agree. I said this in another post.

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