Heisman projection

harleyspoon

BamaNation Citizen
Nov 12, 2012
34
0
0
Friendly Irish: Please also include the rushing stats in your comparison so we can have an unbiased comparison. Thanks in advance.
 

zom

New Member
Dec 7, 2012
4
0
0
Hahahahahahahha @ case closed.

Johnny Manziel Stats: 273 Completions, 68.3 completion %, 3419 yards, 24 TDs, 8 Interceptions
Case Keenum Stats: 428 completions, 71.0 completion %, 5631 yards, 48 touchdowns, 5 interceptions.

One of these players is going to win the heisman. The other didn't get an invite.
Yes, SEC = C-USA, good one there Kojak. Ignoring the DUAL part of a DUAL threat quarterback makes your post even more hilarious.

The kid broke the SEC record, it's a record for a reason... What records has Manti set?
 

CajunCrimson

Moderator (FB,BB) and Vinyl Enthusiast
Staff member
Mar 13, 2001
26,511
20,450
337
Breaux Bridge, La
If Pitt makes that field goal. Notre Dame has one loss. We are playing UF or Oregon, and Te'O wins the Butkus and that's it......
 

FriendlyIrish

3rd Team
Nov 22, 2012
217
0
0
OK, so the young man's grandmother and girlfriend died and were buried. That's tragic and makes a great story, but just stop already. I'm sure other college football players lost family members and/or girlfriends, but I don't see their losses trotted out ad nauseum every time their names are mentioned.
I took this out of my previous post. There are other awards that are directed at stories like this. Although, if you look at the mission statement of the heisman, one might think differently.
 

crmsntd91

1st Team
Sep 30, 2010
471
0
0
I do stand by my point though that he shouldn't win the Heisman.I mean this is actually his worst statistical year since his Freshman season, outside of interceptions. So if we are giving Heismans away for Ints we should invite the CB from Fresno.

I will agree FriendlyIrish he is a great player. Most of my saying good is just compared to the hype speak and my wanting to rant. I would love to have him, build depth behind CJ Mosely. :wink:
 

RedStar

Hall of Fame
Jan 28, 2005
9,628
0
0
39
The Shoals, AL
I am not arguing at whether or not he is over-hyped. I never once said he "deserved the attention he was getting."

My point is that he is not just a "good" player. My point is also that NFL GM's are smarter than any of us, and the fact he is going to be a top ten is proof enough he is one of the best defensive players in college football.
Well then what are we going back and forth about? If he wasn't over-hyped, he wouldn't have a Heisman invite.

He'll be a high draft pick, and he'll be a starter in the NFL, but I see his career going more like James Laurinaitis than Clay Matthews. That's nothing to be ashamed of. I just don't think he's worthy of the attention he's been getting. If he played at BYU with these stats, it's doubtful we'd even be having this conversation.
 

TriCountyTider

All-American
Aug 7, 2012
2,519
1,508
187
I won't get into this too much, but all I can say is,yes having a member of your team win a Heisman is awesome. But,a Bama player isn't invited,and I agree that Manti shouldn't win it. But,if he does I won't care. Just win the TEAM trophy Jan. 7th and keep the NC at the Capstone where it belongs and I will be happy. And IF Manti does win the Heisman,show the rest of the world why there were others more deserving in the process. Then,case closed.
 

crmsntd91

1st Team
Sep 30, 2010
471
0
0
Trent should have won it last year. Best player not even close. Put Trent in the Big #? or PAC 12 and he may have ran for over 2000 yards and 30 TDs. We were blowing people out so he did what he did in 3 qtrs of basically every game outside of the LSU game. RGIII was getting into offensive shootouts and getting to bolster those numbers.

Probably true. There is no RGIII This year.
 

FriendlyIrish

3rd Team
Nov 22, 2012
217
0
0
Well then what are we going back and forth about? If he wasn't over-hyped, he wouldn't have a Heisman invite.

He'll be a high draft pick, and he'll be a starter in the NFL, but I see his career going more like James Laurinaitis than Clay Matthews. That's nothing to be ashamed of. I just don't think he's worthy of the attention he's been getting. If he played at BYU with these stats, it's doubtful we'd even be having this conversation.
I agree with you. The only reason he is going to New York is because our team is undefeated ... Maybe Notre Dame has something to do with that, I'm not sure. But the team is undefeated, and we aren't undefeated if he isn't the player he is. If he played at BYU, I agree, he wouldn't get this attention.

You can say that being the most important on the best team isn't the definition of the Heisman. That is fine. I'm not sure if the debate is between JF and Manti, or Manti vs. the world. The heisman definitely is biased towards teams that are in the NC mix. But I could also argue the heisman has turned into the best "second half quarterback of the year," which perpetuates the fallacy of the heisman and actually argues in favor of picking a person like Manti.

We are arguing about over-hype relative to the heisman, but basing it off of past years of who has won and the stats they had, while at the same time arguing the heisman has moved in the wrong direction. It doesn't make sense. What if the heisman voters want to make a statement? What if they want to say that, well, defensive players have a shot also? If they are, they are not going to start with a defensive player on a 2-loss team. They will start with the defensive player on one of the top defensive unit in college football, coupled with that team being #1 in the nation.
 
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RedStar

Hall of Fame
Jan 28, 2005
9,628
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The Shoals, AL
Trent should have won it last year. Best player not even close. Put Trent in the Big #? or PAC 12 and he may have ran for over 2000 yards and 30 TDs. We were blowing people out so he did what he did in 3 qtrs of basically every game outside of the LSU game. RGIII was getting into offensive shootouts and getting to bolster those numbers.
Trent is one of the best RB's to ever pass through Tuscaloosa, but I can't agree with you on this statement. I could make arguments for Trent too. He was deserving of the trophy and I wanted him to win, but RGIII winning the Heisman wasn't some robbery like Charles Woodson over Peyton Manning.

Last year was like this year. If Manziel wins, I would agree with it, and if Klein wins I would agree with it. There's no clear cut winner. Arguments can be made for both.
 
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FriendlyIrish

3rd Team
Nov 22, 2012
217
0
0
Trent is one of the best RB's to ever pass through Tuscaloosa, but I can't agree with you on this statement. I could make arguments for Trent too. He was deserving of the trophy and I wanted him to win, but RGIII winning the Heisman wasn't some robbery like Charles Woodson over Peyton Manning.

Last year was like this year. If Manziel wins, I would agree with it, and if Klein wins I would agree with it. There's no clear cut winner. Arguments can be made for both.
Was last year Trent's best year?
 

crmsntd91

1st Team
Sep 30, 2010
471
0
0
Good points, but the only person I think that would want to prove a point is maybe Charles Woodson, the rest are just a bunch of offensive dingleberries. Other than Mark Ingram who is a bright young man who will vote Barrett Jones or Chance Warmack.

I agree with you. The only reason he is going to New York is because our team is undefeated ... Maybe Notre Dame has something to do with that, I'm not sure. But the team is undefeated, and we aren't undefeated if he isn't the player he is. If he played at BYU, I agree, he wouldn't get this attention.

You can say that being the most important on the best team isn't the definition of the Heisman. That is fine. I'm not sure if the debate is between JF and Manti, or Manti vs. the world. The heisman definitely is biased towards teams that are in the NC mix. But I could also argue the heisman has turned into the best "second half quarterback of the year," which perpetuates the fallacy of the heisman and actually argues in favor of picking a person like Manti.

We are arguing about over-hype relative to the heisman, but basing it off of past years of who has won and the stats they had, while at the same time arguing the heisman has moved in the wrong direction. It doesn't make sense. What if the heisman voters want to make a statement? What if they want to say that, well, defensive players have a shot also? If they are, they are not going to start with a defensive player on a 2-loss team. They will start with the defensive player on one of the top defensive unit in college football, coupled with that team being #1 in the nation.
 

FriendlyIrish

3rd Team
Nov 22, 2012
217
0
0
Good points, but the only person I think that would want to prove a point is maybe Charles Woodson, the rest are just a bunch of offensive dingleberries. Other than Mark Ingram who is a bright young man who will vote Barrett Jones or Chance Warmack.
I would actually like to see Mark's ballot. That would be interesting.

I'm just saying, it isn't Manti's fault the talent this year blows in comparison to previous years. We keep bringing up past year's stats, but it isn't possible to bring up stats this year and say "wow, this Manti kid really doesn't deserve to be there. Look at this guy's stats". No one stands out.
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
6
0
Prattville
He was deserving of the trophy and I wanted him to win, but RGIII winning the Heisman wasn't some robbery like Charles Woodson over Peyton Manning.
Or Jason White over Eli. BTW Jason White announced he voted for Landry Jones #3. Homer vote, anyone?

Simple why Teo is in the discussion. Easy headlines from: "Teo Shines on Same Day Girlfriend and Grandmother Dies" to "Teo Shines Again, This Time on Day Girlfriend and Grandmother are Buried" to "Teo Leads Resurgence of Once Great Football Power Notre Dame Back to Championship Game"
 

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