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  1. #40
    BamaNation Second Team FriendlyIrish's Avatar
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    Re: Heisman projection

    Quote Originally Posted by RedStar View Post
    You skipped over this, so I'll ask again:

    He's won 6 postseason awards this season, more than any player in CFB history. Unless you think he's the best defender to ever play the game, then there's no other conclusion to jump to other than the fact that he's over-hyped. He doesn't deserve to be the single most decorated player in CFB history. That's a fact.

    Is he over-hyped, or does he deserve to be the single most decorated player in CFB history?
    I am not arguing at whether or not he is over-hyped. I never once said he "deserved the attention he was getting."

    My point is that he is not just a "good" player. My point is also that NFL GM's are smarter than any of us, and the fact he is going to be a top ten is proof enough he is one of the best defensive players in college football.

    There are intangibles within that team me, you, or any other casual observer cannot possibly imagine. Tuitt is sick, and because we have Louis Nix in the mix it has helped people realize how good Tuitt is also.

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  3. #41
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    Re: Heisman projection

    Friendly Irish: Please also include the rushing stats in your comparison so we can have an unbiased comparison. Thanks in advance.

  4. #42
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    Re: Heisman projection

    Quote Originally Posted by FriendlyIrish View Post
    Hahahahahahahha @ case closed.

    Johnny Manziel Stats: 273 Completions, 68.3 completion %, 3419 yards, 24 TDs, 8 Interceptions
    Case Keenum Stats: 428 completions, 71.0 completion %, 5631 yards, 48 touchdowns, 5 interceptions.

    One of these players is going to win the heisman. The other didn't get an invite.
    Yes, SEC = C-USA, good one there Kojak. Ignoring the DUAL part of a DUAL threat quarterback makes your post even more hilarious.

    The kid broke the SEC record, it's a record for a reason... What records has Manti set?

  5. #43
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CajunCrimson's Avatar
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    Re: Heisman projection

    If Pitt makes that field goal. Notre Dame has one loss. We are playing UF or Oregon, and Te'O wins the Butkus and that's it......
    Raj: Excuse me, I can't be drinking, I'm about to make an important scientific discovery here!
    Howard:What? Galileo did his best work while drinking wine!
    Raj: How do you know that?
    Howard: He was Italian, it's a reasonable assumption.
    Raj: Dude, can you even open your mouth without saying a cultural stereotype?
    Howard: I'm sorry Galileo drank diet sprite!

  6. #44
    BamaNation Second Team FriendlyIrish's Avatar
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    Re: Heisman projection

    Quote Originally Posted by BillDee View Post
    OK, so the young man's grandmother and girlfriend died and were buried. That's tragic and makes a great story, but just stop already. I'm sure other college football players lost family members and/or girlfriends, but I don't see their losses trotted out ad nauseum every time their names are mentioned.
    I took this out of my previous post. There are other awards that are directed at stories like this. Although, if you look at the mission statement of the heisman, one might think differently.

  7. #45
    BamaNation Second Team FriendlyIrish's Avatar
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    Re: Heisman projection

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunCrimson View Post
    If Pitt makes that field goal. Notre Dame has one loss. We are playing UF or Oregon, and Te'O wins the Butkus and that's it......
    If Johnny Football fumbles that ball instead of throwing the touchdown, Collin Klein probably wins the heisman.

  8. #46
    BamaNation First Team crmsntd91's Avatar
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    Re: Heisman projection

    I do stand by my point though that he shouldn't win the Heisman.I mean this is actually his worst statistical year since his Freshman season, outside of interceptions. So if we are giving Heismans away for Ints we should invite the CB from Fresno.

    I will agree FriendlyIrish he is a great player. Most of my saying good is just compared to the hype speak and my wanting to rant. I would love to have him, build depth behind CJ Mosely.
    "We have an opponent in this state that we work every day, 365 days a year, to dominate."

  9. #47
    BamaNation Hall of Fame RedStar's Avatar
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    Re: Heisman projection

    Quote Originally Posted by FriendlyIrish View Post
    I am not arguing at whether or not he is over-hyped. I never once said he "deserved the attention he was getting."

    My point is that he is not just a "good" player. My point is also that NFL GM's are smarter than any of us, and the fact he is going to be a top ten is proof enough he is one of the best defensive players in college football.
    Well then what are we going back and forth about? If he wasn't over-hyped, he wouldn't have a Heisman invite.

    He'll be a high draft pick, and he'll be a starter in the NFL, but I see his career going more like James Laurinaitis than Clay Matthews. That's nothing to be ashamed of. I just don't think he's worthy of the attention he's been getting. If he played at BYU with these stats, it's doubtful we'd even be having this conversation.
    Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice? Congratulations, you'd probably make a pretty good con-man.

  10. #48
    BamaNation Hall of Fame RedStar's Avatar
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    Re: Heisman projection

    Quote Originally Posted by FriendlyIrish View Post
    If Johnny Football fumbles that ball instead of throwing the touchdown, Collin Klein probably wins the heisman.
    Probably true. There is no RGIII This year.
    Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice? Congratulations, you'd probably make a pretty good con-man.

  11. #49
    BamaNation All-SEC TriCountyTider's Avatar
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    Re: Heisman projection

    I won't get into this too much, but all I can say is,yes having a member of your team win a Heisman is awesome. But,a Bama player isn't invited,and I agree that Manti shouldn't win it. But,if he does I won't care. Just win the TEAM trophy Jan. 7th and keep the NC at the Capstone where it belongs and I will be happy. And IF Manti does win the Heisman,show the rest of the world why there were others more deserving in the process. Then,case closed.
    The avatar picture is of my Daughter Hailee and me. My daughter is a future Crimson Tide cheerleader

  12. #50
    BamaNation First Team crmsntd91's Avatar
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    Re: Heisman projection

    Trent should have won it last year. Best player not even close. Put Trent in the Big #? or PAC 12 and he may have ran for over 2000 yards and 30 TDs. We were blowing people out so he did what he did in 3 qtrs of basically every game outside of the LSU game. RGIII was getting into offensive shootouts and getting to bolster those numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedStar View Post
    Probably true. There is no RGIII This year.
    "We have an opponent in this state that we work every day, 365 days a year, to dominate."

  13. #51
    BamaNation First Team crmsntd91's Avatar
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    Re: Heisman projection

    If only he had fumbled.......
    Quote Originally Posted by FriendlyIrish View Post
    If Johnny Football fumbles that ball instead of throwing the touchdown, Collin Klein probably wins the heisman.
    "We have an opponent in this state that we work every day, 365 days a year, to dominate."

  14. #52
    BamaNation Second Team FriendlyIrish's Avatar
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    Re: Heisman projection

    Quote Originally Posted by RedStar View Post
    Well then what are we going back and forth about? If he wasn't over-hyped, he wouldn't have a Heisman invite.

    He'll be a high draft pick, and he'll be a starter in the NFL, but I see his career going more like James Laurinaitis than Clay Matthews. That's nothing to be ashamed of. I just don't think he's worthy of the attention he's been getting. If he played at BYU with these stats, it's doubtful we'd even be having this conversation.
    I agree with you. The only reason he is going to New York is because our team is undefeated ... Maybe Notre Dame has something to do with that, I'm not sure. But the team is undefeated, and we aren't undefeated if he isn't the player he is. If he played at BYU, I agree, he wouldn't get this attention.

    You can say that being the most important on the best team isn't the definition of the Heisman. That is fine. I'm not sure if the debate is between JF and Manti, or Manti vs. the world. The heisman definitely is biased towards teams that are in the NC mix. But I could also argue the heisman has turned into the best "second half quarterback of the year," which perpetuates the fallacy of the heisman and actually argues in favor of picking a person like Manti.

    We are arguing about over-hype relative to the heisman, but basing it off of past years of who has won and the stats they had, while at the same time arguing the heisman has moved in the wrong direction. It doesn't make sense. What if the heisman voters want to make a statement? What if they want to say that, well, defensive players have a shot also? If they are, they are not going to start with a defensive player on a 2-loss team. They will start with the defensive player on one of the top defensive unit in college football, coupled with that team being #1 in the nation.
    Last edited by FriendlyIrish; December 7th, 2012 at 02:29 PM. Reason: Changed the bolded part :)

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