Scarbinsky reporting that the SEC is not going to suspend Dial..

Status
Not open for further replies.

TrampLineman

Hall of Fame
Jul 21, 2010
7,287
6
57
Alabama
Dial did nothing wrong so why would he be facing suspension? Murray was moving towards the play and when hit by Dial was not far from the play at all. Watch the t.v. replay, you can see Murray get flattened right before the play goes out of bounds.
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,487
39,557
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
It's not an argument about whether it should have been a penalty. The SEC has said it should have been. However, it's not a suspension-worthy event as he became a defender. If Dial had been an O-lineman downfield on a screen play, they could have thrown a flag there too, but there wouldn't have been a hullaballoo about a suspension. The fact that he was 10 yards away doesn't matter... he moved towards the ball carrier and therefore was a potential threat and could reasonably be blocked. However, the helmet to helmet hit could technically have been called a penalty - just not a suspension because he wasn't a defenseless player... just a clueless one.
I'm not sure this part is still valid. Shaw's offhand remark, when parsed, makes it clear that they hadn't broken down the play, so it was just that - an offhand remark. Presumably, they've now broken it down, since the release says that they're satisfied with the way the schools have handled it internally. They official release makes no mention that it was a missed penalty, and I think there's a good reason for that. If the SEC still felt - after breaking down the play - that there was a penalty deserved, but not suspension, I think it would have said so. So, at the very most, the question of whether or not it deserved a flag is very much up in the air...
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
6
0
Prattville
I'm not sure this part is still valid. Shaw's offhand remark, when parsed, makes it clear that they hadn't broken down the play, so it was just that - an offhand remark. Presumably, they've now broken it down, since the release says that they're satisfied with the way the schools have handled it internally. They official release makes no mention that it was a missed penalty, and I think there's a good reason for that. If the SEC still felt - after breaking down the play - that there was a penalty deserved, but not suspension, I think it would have said so. So, at the very most, the question of whether or not it deserved a flag is very much up in the air...
Here are some tweets by Scarbinsky from the interview:

Steve Shaw on Smashmouth: Several SEC Ch plays rose to the level of a conference review. Rather not go into all the plays. Just a few.
Steve Shaw on Smashmouth: That is absolutely not the case (that the SEC office favors Alabama in these rulings.)
Steve Shaw on Smashmouth: Dial hit should've been a personal foul. We missed the call. But different from hits that resulted in suspension.
Steve Shaw on Smashmouth: Looked at Dial hit frame by frame. Looked at it more than any other play this year.
Steve Shaw on Smashmouth: Dial hit different in part because Murray was a defender on the play. It was an INT return.
Steve Shaw on Smashmouth: One key for suspension is having a true defenseless player.
Steve Shaw on Smashmouth: 2 aspects we drill officials on. Defenseless player targeted above shoulders. And lowering the head to hit.
Steve Shaw on Smashmouth: Ala and Georgia both took disciplinary action with their players based on plays from the SEC Championship Game.
And the audio to the interview:

Link

Scarbinsky retweeted this, too. Interesting:

@marcweiszer
Georgia will issue statement today on SEC ruling, according to AD Greg McGarity. Mark Richt would address anything to do with players.
 
Last edited:

DocCrimson

All-SEC
Jan 3, 2010
1,731
128
82
East TN
I'm not sure this part is still valid. Shaw's offhand remark, when parsed, makes it clear that they hadn't broken down the play, so it was just that - an offhand remark. Presumably, they've now broken it down, since the release says that they're satisfied with the way the schools have handled it internally. They official release makes no mention that it was a missed penalty, and I think there's a good reason for that. If the SEC still felt - after breaking down the play - that there was a penalty deserved, but not suspension, I think it would have said so. So, at the very most, the question of whether or not it deserved a flag is very much up in the air...

Fair enough. I could have sworn that I'd seen several comments in articles stating that the SEC had said it should have been a penalty. I would have been disappointed if he'd been flagged, but could have lived with it as a decision given the helmet-to-helmet contact. But I was most assuredly yelling at my TV when they were complaining that it was an inappropriate hit. My read on it was that he left his helmet too far forward, but was actually charging with his shoulder, but when AM turned his head, it resulted in helmet-to-helmet contact. I've seen that called many times, but I've also seen it missed (or intentionally not called) plenty of times as well. I was just saying that the real issue regarding the media has to do with a terrible interpretation of when someone should be suspended. Dial clearly wanted to get a free shot on the QB, but it was well within the rules to block him. The helmet-to-helmet hit in that situation would never have resulted in demands for a suspension in the example I gave.
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,487
39,557
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
Fair enough. I could have sworn that I'd seen several comments in articles stating that the SEC had said it should have been a penalty. I would have been disappointed if he'd been flagged, but could have lived with it as a decision given the helmet-to-helmet contact. But I was most assuredly yelling at my TV when they were complaining that it was an inappropriate hit. My read on it was that he left his helmet too far forward, but was actually charging with his shoulder, but when AM turned his head, it resulted in helmet-to-helmet contact. I've seen that called many times, but I've also seen it missed (or intentionally not called) plenty of times as well. I was just saying that the real issue regarding the media has to do with a terrible interpretation of when someone should be suspended. Dial clearly wanted to get a free shot on the QB, but it was well within the rules to block him. The helmet-to-helmet hit in that situation would never have resulted in demands for a suspension in the example I gave.
Actually, from Marty's post from the interview with Shaw on Smashmouth, it appears you are correct. What still bothers me about the helmet to helmet is how on earth a defender can possibly avoid it when he's 6" taller. How can he get low enough to avoid it without going dangerously low? It's a conundrum without an answer in the rulebook...
 

Ole Man Dan

Hall of Fame
Apr 21, 2008
8,959
3,392
187
Gadsden, Al.
Re: No link: But Scarbinsky is reporting that the SEC is not going to suspend Dial..

From Steve Shaw:
WOW... The SEC got it right on Murray becoming a Defender after the Interception.
(Still didn't look to me like Dial lowered his head for the hit, problem is a lot of people forget
that football is a contact sport, and there are violent collisions.)
 

BayouBama75

All-SEC
Dec 7, 2001
1,012
105
187
Knoxville, TN
I thought helmet to helmet was only a penalty on defenseless player. Running backs and blocking are allowed H-H contact. Once Murrary moved towards the ball carrier he was no longer a defenseless player unless there is some rule that say QBs are always defenseless.
 

DocCrimson

All-SEC
Jan 3, 2010
1,731
128
82
East TN
I thought helmet to helmet was only a penalty on defenseless player. Running backs and blocking are allowed H-H contact. Once Murrary moved towards the ball carrier he was no longer a defenseless player unless there is some rule that say QBs are always defenseless.
Even if you're not classified as defenseless, you're not supposed to lead with the helmet. In this case, what went from being a punishing shoulder tackle ended up as helmet-to-helmet. I may have crimson colored glasses, and I wouldn't have been enraged about it getting called, but I would have been disappointed. I agree with Earle to an extent. You can't expect people to tackle without getting the helmet into the body sometimes, even with perfect form. I also agree that we need to reduce the frequency of concussions. I see brain injured patients almost every day at work, and it's much harder to successfully treat people for mental health issues when they have a history of brain injury. And for those of you who have debated this issue, ANY concussion is considered a mild traumatic brain injury. Whether or not you have residual deficits from mTBI is another issue.
 

BamaFanInTally

All-SEC
Nov 18, 2002
1,660
1,142
312
Tallahassee, FL, USA
I'm all about player safety, within reason. It looks like the intent of CFB and Pro Football is to turn the game into a friendly game of badminton. When you play big time, big boy football in the SEC, you better tighten the straps pretty tight.
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,487
39,557
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
Even if you're not classified as defenseless, you're not supposed to lead with the helmet. In this case, what went from being a punishing shoulder tackle ended up as helmet-to-helmet. I may have crimson colored glasses, and I wouldn't have been enraged about it getting called, but I would have been disappointed. I agree with Earle to an extent. You can't expect people to tackle without getting the helmet into the body sometimes, even with perfect form. I also agree that we need to reduce the frequency of concussions. I see brain injured patients almost every day at work, and it's much harder to successfully treat people for mental health issues when they have a history of brain injury. And for those of you who have debated this issue, ANY concussion is considered a mild traumatic brain injury. Whether or not you have residual deficits from mTBI is another issue.
I've actually had several concussions, the worst when I was 15. I don't think I have any issues, but how would I know? :D BTW, here is the moment of impact posted on another site. It appears to be an amateur pic...


 

Ole Man Dan

Hall of Fame
Apr 21, 2008
8,959
3,392
187
Gadsden, Al.
I thought helmet to helmet was only a penalty on defenseless player. Running backs and blocking are allowed H-H contact. Once Murrary moved towards the ball carrier he was no longer a defenseless player unless there is some rule that say QBs are always defenseless.

In Aaron Murray's defense... It wasn't so much that he was defenseless,
as much as he was clueless.
;)
Murray put himself in a bad spot by chasing after the play, and Dial reacted with
heavy contact.
The TV morons... Danielson and Lindquist seem to get it wrong more often than not.
They couldn't admit they were mistaken, so they started the crap that Dial should be suspended for the hit.
Vern & Gary are the ones who should have earned a suspension,
they allowed their bias to get in the way of analysis and calling the game.
Vern & Gary seem to always get it wrong when Alabama is playing...
Morons like this inserting themselves into the game is wrong on so many different levels,
 
Last edited:

rgw

Suspended
Sep 15, 2003
20,852
1,351
232
Tuscaloosa
Actually, from Marty's post from the interview with Shaw on Smashmouth, it appears you are correct. What still bothers me about the helmet to helmet is how on earth a defender can possibly avoid it when he's 6" taller. How can he get low enough to avoid it without going dangerously low? It's a conundrum without an answer in the rulebook...
That was my point about the Dial on Murray hit all along. He clearly didn't lead with his head but the height differential made some helmet contact probable to even inevitable. The only way Dial was going to effectively avoid some helmet contact in that matchup was to launch his body into Murray's torso which is a dirtier block in my opinion. If Dial goes low, you are talking about the possibility of Murray having one or both of his knees shredded.
 

DocCrimson

All-SEC
Jan 3, 2010
1,731
128
82
East TN
I've actually had several concussions, the worst when I was 15. I don't think I have any issues, but how would I know? :D
It really is hard to know if you have issues from TBI. People who become cognitively limited often don't realize the difference - it just seems like everything is harder. Same goes for mood issues from TBI.

It's also hard to predict who will have what effects, and for how long. As a general rule, if someone was to sustain a concussion with brief loss of consciousness, it was the first brain injury sustained, and they began having difficulties following that concussion, the vast majority of difficulties should resolve within 1 year. When you combine mental health issues to that concussion, things get very confusing. Brain injury can cause or exacerbate mental illness and mental illness can complicate resolution of likely TBI residuals. Same goes for multiple concussions, although most of the time changes should have developed within a few weeks of the concussion, although some difficulties may be hard to spot until years down the road. For example, if you have repeated brain injuries with only mild memory loss, will it only become more obvious how much damage it did after you grow older and your brain naturally degenerates as well?
 

Al A Bama

Hall of Fame
Jun 24, 2011
6,658
934
132
Looks like they made the correct decision.

When they mentioned both teams, was UGA'***** on A. J. or the finger/s in Millner's eyes under consideration?
 

DocCrimson

All-SEC
Jan 3, 2010
1,731
128
82
East TN
Looks like they made the correct decision.

When they mentioned both teams, was UGA'***** on A. J. or the finger/s in Millner's eyes under consideration?
That's a really good point. I don't imagine they presented UA's proposed punishment to UGA for them to vet. So of all the plays on the UGA side that could have resulted in discipline, I would bet on the eye-poke.
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,487
39,557
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
It really is hard to know if you have issues from TBI. People who become cognitively limited often don't realize the difference - it just seems like everything is harder. Same goes for mood issues from TBI.

It's also hard to predict who will have what effects, and for how long. As a general rule, if someone was to sustain a concussion with brief loss of consciousness, it was the first brain injury sustained, and they began having difficulties following that concussion, the vast majority of difficulties should resolve within 1 year. When you combine mental health issues to that concussion, things get very confusing. Brain injury can cause or exacerbate mental illness and mental illness can complicate resolution of likely TBI residuals. Same goes for multiple concussions, although most of the time changes should have developed within a few weeks of the concussion, although some difficulties may be hard to spot until years down the road. For example, if you have repeated brain injuries with only mild memory loss, will it only become more obvious how much damage it did after you grow older and your brain naturally degenerates as well?
If I told you my IQ you wouldn't believe me. Memory? I've been fluent in more than one language for many years, and read a number, but I did manage to learn conversational Norwegian at 68. (I'm 73 now, or will be Sunday). :D With the first concussion, I didn't regain full consciousness until the next day. The other three were milder, with my only being dazed (and with enormous headaches)...
 

CapstoneTider

Suspended
Dec 6, 2000
7,453
6
0
I thought it was 3/1 he played. Thread "thread" plays out the strong points and also the league is NOT going to put the attention on themselves by suspending before a game for the ages if the don;t have to. Normally he would have been suspend due to the lobying, which I can't stand, but they are not going to cave in before a game like Bama vs ND.
 

DocCrimson

All-SEC
Jan 3, 2010
1,731
128
82
East TN
If I told you my IQ you wouldn't believe me. Memory? I've been fluent in more than one language for many years, and read a number, but I did manage to learn conversational Norwegian at 68. (I'm 73 now, or will be Sunday...) :D With the first concussion, I didn't regain full consciousness until the next day. The other three were milder, with my only being dazed (and with enormous headaches)...
Haha. I wouldn't doubt it. Even with severe concussions like that, people often regain full function. And I would bet that those headaches were at their peak soon after the concussions and gradually resolved. The problem is that with subsequent concussions there's increased risk that the residual symptoms will linger longer, and possibly never remit. When you're looking at football, probably most NFL players have probably sustained some degree of brain injury, whether they realize it or not. Even briefly seeing an aura or being "dazed" for a few seconds often means you've technically had a concussion.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest threads

TideFans.shop : 2024 Madness!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.