Gun Control Thread -- (Pros and Cons) -- Aftermath of Connecticut Shooting

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CajunCrimson

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I thought it would be a good idea to have the political commentary about the shooting and gun control here. Though I have strong feelings about it -- I think it best to separate the tragedy from the politics.

Can we have the discussion about the politics here? That way we make sure that the other thread is maintained in a tone that is fitting of the tragedy.

God Bless ya'll....

RTR
 

Clubfitter

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Incoming. :fsniper: on TideFans.com Country divided here, mostly between Rep and Dem. Dem for Gun control, Rep not for gun control. I am not for gun control. The Connecticut incident (Ranks as one of the most awful tragedy's ever with me) does not change my opinion. More than likely this and all other terrible shootings would have happened even with gun control.
 

mrusso

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First let me start off by saying I have always owned guns. I don't have a problem with gun control as long as it's clearly defined and enforced correctly. What's wrong with requiring a waiting period...registration...gun safety training...etc? I even think there should be some regulation as to how much ammo you can buy, though I have no idea how that could be controlled. I personally am against assault type weapons, but then again, any gun used in the wrong manner is an assault weapon. I guess what I'm really against is fully automatic weapons.

Now, with that said I have to play devil's advocate and say that my biggest fear with gun control is that could lead to (an attempt at) gun abolishment if not done correctly. And I personally don't think our politicians can do this correctly. I also want to add that tighter gun control probably would not have stopped this from happening. It may curb some violence but if the bad people want to get you, they're going to find a way to do it.
 

92tide

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First let me start off by saying I have always owned guns. I don't have a problem with gun control as long as it's clearly defined and enforced correctly. What's wrong with requiring a waiting period...registration...gun safety training...etc? I even think there should be some regulation as to how much ammo you can buy, though I have no idea how that could be controlled. I personally am against assault type weapons, but then again, any gun used in the wrong manner is an assault weapon. I guess what I'm really against is fully automatic weapons.

Now, with that said I have to play devil's advocate and say that my biggest fear with gun control is that could lead to (an attempt at) gun abolishment if not done correctly. And I personally don't think our politicians can do this correctly. I also want to add that tighter gun control probably would not have stopped this from happening. It may curb some violence but if the bad people want to get you, they're going to find a way to do it.
i am mostly in agreement with you. my views on gun "control" (i prefer the term gun regulation) have not changed based on individual events like yesterday. i believe overall, that it is much too easy to obtain and carry firearms. while i am proficient in handling weapons, i had to show nothing other than a drivers license (also note, i believe it is much too easy to get a driver's license :) ), fingerprints and fill out a quick background form to get a concealed carry permit. gun regulations are only one small part of the problem here. our country needs to learn how to deal with mental illness much better than we do now. an additional peace, our desire to know everything, all of the time, instantaneously feeds into an almost worship of events like this

as always, all of the above is jmho
 

buzzincuzzin

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"that could lead to (an attempt at) gun abolishment"....
COULD?????? you wrote that like it's not an intended destination for the wrong left-wing.

PRO(ficiency) with a firearm will help deter CON(victs) invading your space.
 

92tide

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COULD?????? you wrote that like it's not an intended destination for the wrong left-wing.

PRO(ficiency) with a firearm will help deter CON(victs) invading your space.
wayne la pierre has called me many times over the last few years letting me know that gun abolishment is just around the corner. its amazing how many billions are made each year pushing paranoid fantasies
 

bamacon

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Gun control i.e. stripping our constitutional right would not stop this type of killing. Evil people who want to do evil things will find a way. What is a criminal? A person who violates the law. If they don't care about taking a life would they really lose sleep about obtaining a gun illegally.
 

Jessica4Bama

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I went and got my concealed weapon permit around two years ago. I had to go to Decatur with a completed application. They did a background check on me, which took all of 5-10 minutes. I didn't get fingerprinted or anything other than a background check.

I don't know what the government can or will do on gun control, but I do know that a person who wants to commit these acts of violence will get a gun one way or the other.
 

crimsonaudio

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As an avid firearms enthusiast and one who carries a handgun much of the time, I've spent a lot of time thinking about this over the years. We have a unique set of circumstances here in the States that makes it virtually impossible to look at solutions other countries have taken to combat violence combined with firearms, and it's worth noting some of those differences and what they mean.

The biggest issue we face in the US regarding the use of firearms in violent acts is the way firearms are woven into our social structure. The US is a country that really wouldn't have existed without firearms, and in fact the very first battle of the Revolutionary War was over gun control - the Brits wanted our firearms, we resisted and the rest is history. This was recognized by the founding fathers to be of such importance that it is specifically enumerated in our Constitution. This could be changed, of course, but Pandora's Box is already open, and has been open for several hundred years here. No one (not even the government) has any idea how many firearms are in the US (legal or otherwise), though it's estimated that there are more guns than people, which leads to the next point - if you took extreme measures and literally outlawed ownership of ALL firearms, would the criminals and the hardcore gun owners obey? The answer, of course, is no - they would not. At that point we have who knows how many firearms in the hands of criminals who now know that the entire country is a 'gun free zone'. That's not an answer.

So if you start considering gun control options, what works? Little, honestly. CT is ranked by the Brady Center as having the 4th strongest gun control laws in the US, but we now know this murderer killed his mom and stole her legally owned firearms - she was legal, he broke the law (murder, theft) and armed himself then committed this atrocious act.

The reality is outside of even more aggressive background checks, there's little that can be done. If no more guns were sold in the US starting *now*, there are still hundreds of millions of firearms in this country already, and I suspect more are smuggled in every day.

People get emotional in the aftermath of these terrible shootings, that's completely understandable. The frustrating part is when they then go after an inanimate object as if that's the blame, because introspection and dealing with the actual societal issues is far more troubling and difficult.
 

chanson78

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I fall in the same camp as mrrusso and 92tide. Gun owner, I participate in hand gun shooting matches on the weekends, all in all someone who exercises my 2nd amendment frequently. However while I can understand the fear that gun control is a slippery slope, eventually someone has to stand up and figure out some measure of equivalency for how many crazy guys shooting up schools are worth it so I can go shooting on the weekend.

It isn't that gun control is going to fix the problem. As stated before there are far too many guns out there to truly regulate the sale and possession if you only considered the existing supply. But there are some things you could do to possibly reduce the frequency of these killings.

1. Get rid of the gun show loophole.
2. Bring back the 7 day waiting period.
3. If you have ever been diagnosed with a mental defect, no guns period.
4. Better data mining so that if someone buys 4 pistols, a rifle, extended mags, and 2000 rounds of ammo in a week, that bears a visit by the police.
5. If you own a gun without proper storage mechanisms (safe) and it is stolen you bear some responsibility for the crime.
 

exiledNms

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Just to further complicate the issue: "China Stabbing Spree Injures 22 Primary School Children and 1 Adult" (also happened Friday)

Keep in mind that the gen'l population in China are not allowed to own guns.

With that said, I have no smug moral high horse here. As the Father of two former kindergarten students (now 22 & 24), as an educator, & as a gun owner who has voted for people with both (R) and (D) after their names, I'm still trying to get my mind around it all. I strongly echo the mental illness comments made earlier in the thread too.
 

Bama Reb

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If making guns illegal could get them off the streets then we should outlaw heroin and meth too.
I thought we did that already. Wait. We did. So, why are they still on the streets?
We once outlawed alcohol, but it was still on the street. Many drugs were outlawed, but they're still available on the black market.
What makes people think, even for a second, that outlawing guns will somehow eliminate them?
Answer: It won't. It will only take them out of the hands of law-abiding citizens, thus making those citizens more vulnerable to criminals.
Woe unto them who have chosen to register their firearms, for theirs will be confiscated first. So will they also be among the first victims of the armed criminals.
 

92tide

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But there are people, including those who make laws, who believe we should outlaw certain types of firearms including hand guns.
but there are people, including those who make laws, who believe and support all kinds of crazy things that never make it out of committee, much less become law.
 

crimsonaudio

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who is talking about making guns illegal, everything on this thread is about regulations
That's fine, but aside from appeasing knee-jerk reactions due to frustration, what do these new regulations REALLY accomplish? The law-abiding citizens will continue to abide by the law, the criminals (and criminally insane) will continue to break the law. Making something that is unbelievably plentiful more difficult to get isn't likely to have much, if any, impact.

The answer isn't more rules - it's trying to figure out why it seems we're so much more prone to violence in the US. People keep trying for the 'easy' answer - more rules and regulations - when the underlying issue driving this rampant violence remains unaddressed. I don't know what the answer is, but more regulations and laws have done nothing to stop drug use in the US - do you really believe human behavior can be controlled by laws?
 

92tide

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I thought we did that already. Wait. We did. So, why are they still on the streets?
We once outlawed alcohol, but it was still on the street. Many drugs were outlawed, but they're still available on the black market.
What makes people think, even for a second, that outlawing guns will somehow eliminate them?
Answer: It won't. It will only take them out of the hands of law-abiding citizens, thus making those citizens more vulnerable to criminals.
Woe unto them who have chosen to register their firearms, for theirs will be confiscated first. So will they also be among the first victims of the armed criminals.
i hear that wal-mart is having a 2 for 1 sale on aluminum foil this weekend. i would also suggest barring your doors, pretty sure obama's UN goons are coming to your house first to begin the confiscation
 

crimsonaudio

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And for the record, I'm NOT against more regulations if someone can show me they work. I just need to know they work before we start creating more laws.
 

Bama Reb

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i hear that wal-mart is having a 2 for 1 sale on aluminum foil this weekend. i would also suggest barring your doors, pretty sure obama's UN goons are coming to your house first to begin the confiscation
I don't need any, but thanks anyway.
My Mayan calendar says the world will be destroyed next week, so I'm fine where I am - for now. :wink:
 
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