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  1. #66
    BamaNation Hall of Fame TexasBama's Avatar
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    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    I saw Payton Manning 10 years ago call every play at the line. It didn't look gimmicky. This gimmicky assertion reminds me of the nihilists in the Big Lebowski complaining its not fair.

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  3. #67
    BamaNation All-American KrAzY3's Avatar
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    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasBama View Post
    I saw Payton Manning 10 years ago call every play at the line. It didn't look gimmicky. This gimmicky assertion reminds me of the nihilists in the Big Lebowski complaining its not fair.
    I tried to make it abundantly clear that my labeling it a gimmick offense was not a complaint at all. My point was, and is that it is an offense that is not fundamentally sound and is very vulnerable. It relies on lack of opponent's preparation, so it creates a false impression. I brought up Georgia Southern for a reason, since the logic that Oregon and A&M are the best teams in football is the same logic that Georgia Southern had the best offense Alabama faced in 2011. This "gimmick" can and will be dealt with in the future, once teams start to prepare for it (as Nick Saban said he would).

    Oregon's lowest point total was 14 points, the most points given up was 52.
    Texas A&M's lowest point total was 17, the most points given up was 57.

    If you can't look at those numbers and understand that these teams were very beatable, then anything I say is futile. My angst in regards to this issue is that because Alabama dominated Notre Dame, a lot of people wanted to give undo credit to Oregon and Texas A&M and also disrespect what Alabama and Notre Dame accomplished. All four of those are good teams, but the two fundamentally sound teams are the ones that made it to, and belonged in the championship game.

  4. #68
    BamaNation First Team bamadp's Avatar
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    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    Call it "gimmicky" or whatever nomenclature you want...just ask why. The main objective of a hurry-up, fast paced offense is to prevent the other team from substituting, Why? Because their players are better than yours. Why? They've got 85 schollies, you've got 85 schollies. Are their 85 better? Are they better coached? Isn't that the headcoaches responsibility to evaluate, recruit, and develop the players on the whole team? Your team plays defense half the time, but I guess it's easier to cover up for half your teams deficiencies with the other half.

    Playing that type offense inevitably makes a team "soft". Who do ya think they practice against? Texas played that way with MCoy but they couldn't block for the run or tackle. A lot of coaches and players have gotten away from the fundamentals these days. Why should players learn to block and tackle, it's easier just to cover it up and outscore the other guys.

    I'm sure some can't wait to see A&M vs. Oregon play an "exciting" 50-49 NCG...but that's not football, at least not the way I know it...but maybe by the time it happens, Ill be six feet under.
    If anything goes bad, I did it. If anything goes semi-good, we did it. If anything goes really good, then you did it. That's all it takes to get people to win football games for you. - Coach Paul "Bear" Bryant

  5. #69
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    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    Many here are discrediting the very good defensive play of Texas A&M. Did any watch the Cotton Bowl and see the defensive stands that stopped a very good OU team and forced them to settle for field goals? The commentators repeatedly said that A&M would be warn down in the second half but instead held them to 3 successive 3 and outs in the 3rd quarter. This defense practices every day against the hurry up offense and apparently it has made them a better defense.

  6. #70
    BamaNation All-American B1GTide's Avatar
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    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    Quote Originally Posted by AggieMom View Post
    Many here are discrediting the very good defensive play of Texas A&M. Did any watch the Cotton Bowl and see the defensive stands that stopped a very good OU team and forced them to settle for field goals? The commentators repeatedly said that A&M would be warn down in the second half but instead held them to 3 successive 3 and outs in the 3rd quarter. This defense practices every day against the hurry up offense and apparently it has made them a better defense.
    I do not think they are discrediting the "play". The fans on this site have given aTm and Manziel his due many times over since that loss. They are discussing the offensive philosophy.

    Your head coach didn't run this offense at the beginning of the season. He said that he changed the offense when it became clear what he had in Manziel. And I agree that your defense was solid, but the defense was not your strength this season. It complimented your offense.

  7. #71
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    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    A&M played 12 games in a row in the brutal sec, with a freshman Qb and still only lost 2 games. If having a low scoring game makes a offense a gimmick then ever offense is a gimmick. How is Oregon's offense a gimmick?

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    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    Quote Originally Posted by B1GTide View Post
    I do not think they are discrediting the "play". The fans on this site have given aTm and Manziel his due many times over since that loss. They are discussing the offensive philosophy.

    Your head coach didn't run this offense at the beginning of the season. He said that he changed the offense when it became clear what he had in Manziel. And I agree that your defense was solid, but the defense was not your strength this season. It complimented your offense.
    I was responding to the poster above my post who said essentially that the hurry up offense made the team "soft" and unable to "block and tackle" and led to high scoring games with little defense.

  9. January 9th, 2013, 11:18 PM

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  10. #73
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    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    TAMU scored the most points on us in over two years (2010 South Carolina)...so they're doing something right.

  11. #74
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    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamaforeverme View Post
    In my opinion all these "fast huddle" teams ( oregon Texas A & M, etc.) are what I call coward football. They can only win mainly because they line up quick against a defense who's players are not speed demons . They won't line up and slug it out, they have to run up to the line and hope to scamper off a play before the defense has a chance to even blink an eye.
    But I betcha Saban will be ready for this kind of thing next time and one day one big burly defensive player is going to slam mr. jonnhy football to the ground..
    I was very unimpressed watching him play in their bowl game. Didnt he know the camera was on him and every time it was he was using the F word and acting all cocky. And dont foreget the audio ESPN loved to keep repeating leading up to the NC game where he said it was good to beat Bama's a**.
    Reminds me a lot of sCam Newton..
    Why is it coward football? The whole point of the game is to give your team edge.

  12. #75
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    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    Quote Originally Posted by AggieMom View Post
    I was responding to the poster above my post who said essentially that the hurry up offense made the team "soft" and unable to "block and tackle" and led to high scoring games with little defense.
    A&M is not soft IMO. They are going to be a big time player in the sec.

  13. #76
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    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaPokerplayer View Post
    Why is it coward football? The whole point of the game is to give your team edge.
    And isn't that what Saban is doing with his "defensive packages"? Would that make those a "gimmick defense"?

  14. #77
    Suspended Dallas4Bama's Avatar
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    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    First of all please disregard the comments by bamaforever. That's completely out of left field and should be deleted because of the implied cursing included. His view doesn't represent.what the rest of us are discussing. He obviously doesn't remember some of the things Coach Bryant did to change the game away from the conventional means at the time to gain an advantage.

    Second, if we use the word "unconventional" instead if "gimmick" can we spend less time on the debate over syntax and more on the merits of the offense?

  15. #78
    BamaNation First Team bamadp's Avatar
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    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    Quote Originally Posted by AggieMom View Post
    Many here are discrediting the very good defensive play of Texas A&M. Did any watch the Cotton Bowl and see the defensive stands that stopped a very good OU team and forced them to settle for field goals? The commentators repeatedly said that A&M would be warn down in the second half but instead held them to 3 successive 3 and outs in the 3rd quarter. This defense practices every day against the hurry up offense and apparently it has made them a better defense.
    That's Big-12 mentality, a 57th ranked defense is considered very good. Maybe they're better against other hurry-up offenses (though they did give up 57 against La. Tech). They also gave up 28 to Sam Houston State, and 29 to Missouri.
    Teams that run this type of offense have never been known for their physicality. See Texas, Oregon, Arizona, West Virginia, and yes...even Oklahoma. Last year the A&M defense was #59, and that was in the Big-12. This year in the no offense SEC they were #57. Their m.o. was to outscore people...not overpower them. Playing tough, physical football and scoring lots of points are two different things. No one is discrediting A&M, but these teams don't hold up well against physical teams...we've all seen it, many times in the past. Sometimes the truth hurts.
    If anything goes bad, I did it. If anything goes semi-good, we did it. If anything goes really good, then you did it. That's all it takes to get people to win football games for you. - Coach Paul "Bear" Bryant

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