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  1. #79
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    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    First, I've said before that TAMU was not an untalented team on offense. They had a huge question mark at QB entering the season but I figured the system was conducive to getting winnable QB play. Kinda like the difference between 2008 Chris Todd and 2009 Chris Todd for Auburn. He wasn't great but that system made him decent enough to lead a bowl eligible team.

    Mike Sherman didn't get fired for poor talent identification. He got fired for game management. TAMU was a 8 or 9 win team that couldn't manage a lead in several games. Tannehill need to be reeled in some and they would let him bumble the game away several times.

    This was basically the 2011 Aggies with a different coach and quarterback. I think those two factors made all the difference for them. With that said, they're losing a lot of talent this offseason and it may be hard for them to meet their current expectations.

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  3. #80

    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    Quote Originally Posted by bamadp View Post
    That's Big-12 mentality, a 57th ranked defense is considered very good. Maybe they're better against other hurry-up offenses (though they did give up 57 against La. Tech). They also gave up 28 to Sam Houston State, and 29 to Missouri.
    Teams that run this type of offense have never been known for their physicality. See Texas, Oregon, Arizona, West Virginia, and yes...even Oklahoma. Last year the A&M defense was #59, and that was in the Big-12. This year in the no offense SEC they were #57. Their m.o. was to outscore people...not overpower them. Playing tough, physical football and scoring lots of points are two different things. No one is discrediting A&M, but these teams don't hold up well against physical teams...we've all seen it, many times in the past. Sometimes the truth hurts.
    Was unable to see La Tech game so have no input on that. However, the 28 and 29 points in other games you mentioned were garbage time points put up against 2nd and 3rd string defense after the starters were removed because the game was well in hand. Coach Snyder said after those games that the drop off from the first string was problematic and indicative of less time working with non starters. The defense definitely improved over the season and we obviously held FL, LSU, and AL to less than 25 pts each. Going into the season the defense was the area of the most concern with least depth. With the level of recruiting I expect they will make strides. You are making generalizations and trying to equate to mindset.

  4. #81
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Alasippi's Avatar
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    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    Question---Since most all football teams ran the single wing initially, is the I formation a gimmick offense?

  5. #82
    FB Moderator Bamabuzzard's Avatar
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    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    Quote Originally Posted by 257WBY View Post
    Texas went to an SEC style offense after McCoy and haven't been the same sense. Tebow followed Leak for a NC. Baylor plugged in the next QB and he only broke RGIIIs season yardage record. Oregon has run several QBs and they just keep on winning. Texas Tech had about four QBs that put up huge numbers and won ball games. It only ended when Craig James ran the coach off.
    It's the pace not the scheme. We could do the same thing with our offense. LSU did it to us with their pro style offense. It has absolutely nothing to do with the style of offense. All that is happening is the pace of the offense basically only gives the defense time to line up for the next play. This eliminates the defense from reading the pre snap formation, making substitutions, making adjustments to their alignments and other personnel on the field. Turning the play into a sandlot football type situation. Defensive players are in a position of having to "free style" defending the play because they've had no time to change alignments, personnel or overall positioning.

    It is the pace that is causing the havoc, not the scheme.
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  6. #83

    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    Buzzard, you're leaving out that the QB is a threat instead of a handoff machine.

  7. #84
    FB Moderator Bamabuzzard's Avatar
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    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    Quote Originally Posted by 257WBY View Post
    Buzzard, you're leaving out that the QB is a threat instead of a handoff machine.
    My point in using LSU as the example is that they didn't have that type qb and ACCOMPLISHED THE SAME THING aTm did (other than the win). They (being LSU) drastically picked up the pace and it caused the same problems for us. We couldn't substitute, make pre snap adjustments etc. They did this with not having the style quarterback you're referring to. So what's really causing the problem?
    The existence of God isn't determined in the thoughts of man. God exist, no matter what man thinks.

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  8. #85

    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    Baylor rushed for 306 yards in the bowl to UCLAs 33. That's a gimmick most anyone will take. The reality is that Alabama will need to adjust to a smaller, faster defense against Aggie and Ole Miss. No big deal.

  9. #86
    FB Moderator Bamabuzzard's Avatar
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    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    Quote Originally Posted by 257WBY View Post
    Baylor rushed for 306 yards in the bowl to UCLAs 33. That's a gimmick most anyone will take. The reality is that Alabama will need to adjust to a smaller, faster defense against Aggie and Ole Miss. No big deal.

    I doubt Saban sacrifices all of that. Especially seeing that adjustments can be made. People want to ignore the fact that after the first quarter of the aTm game, they only scored 8 pts in three quarters. So whatever adjustments were made worked. I would tend to think Saban will attempt to keep the same style players and continue down the path of the adjustments they made from the 2nd qtr on (in the aTm game) before changing the type player he gets. If we go smaller and faster on defense we no longer will be able to stop the run against teams like LSU, Georgia and soon to be again Arkansas.

    I just don't think the spread in and of itself is that scary. It's the pace that is causing the problems. But we could go on for days about this.
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  10. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Bamabuzzard View Post
    My point in using LSU as the example is that they didn't have that type qb and ACCOMPLISHED THE SAME THING aTm did (other than the win). They (being LSU) drastically picked up the pace and it caused the same problems for us. We couldn't substitute, make pre snap adjustments etc. They did this with not having the style quarterback you're referring to. So what's really causing the problem?
    LSU is one of the few teams that can match up physically with Alabama. Take that talent level and add a QB that is a run threat and you have an incredible offense. A QB who is a threat as an athlete is the key.

  11. #88
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    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dallas4Bama View Post
    Second, if we use the word "unconventional" instead if "gimmick" can we spend less time on the debate over syntax and more on the merits of the offense?
    I'd express general agreement. Mainly though I think people interpret their own connotation to gimmick. I personally think the wishbone was a gimmick, I think the wildcat was a gimmick. Both have a lot of success. But, that sort of thing has a lifespan.

    As to what is and isn't a gimmick, something isn't a gimmick if it stands the test of time. If, once the novelty has worn off, and once teams have adjusted to it, it still works well then it's not a gimmick. We'll see in the next few years since this sort of offense is rising in popularity. If it isn't a gimmick, more and more teams will use it and they all will have great success. If it is a gimmick, as more teams use it, more teams will get used to it and it will fail at an increasing rate.

    Once again though, this is not to disparage Texas A&M, but I was at the game. They caught Alabama off guard, and that's what this defense tries to do. You can only catch people off guard so many times doing the same thing...

  12. #89

    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post
    I'd express general agreement. Mainly though I think people interpret their own connotation to gimmick. I personally think the wishbone was a gimmick, I think the wildcat was a gimmick. Both have a lot of success. But, that sort of thing has a lifespan.

    As to what is and isn't a gimmick, something isn't a gimmick if it stands the test of time. If, once the novelty has worn off, and once teams have adjusted to it, it still works well then it's not a gimmick. We'll see in the next few years since this sort of offense is rising in popularity. If it isn't a gimmick, more and more teams will use it and they all will have great success. If it is a gimmick, as more teams use it, more teams will get used to it and it will fail at an increasing rate.

    Once again though, this is not to disparage Texas A&M, but I was at the game. They caught Alabama off guard, and that's what this defense tries to do. You can only catch people off guard so many times doing the same thing...

    The media leading up to the Cotton Bowl made much of the fact that OU had a month to prepare for aTm. Johnny astutely pointed out after the game that aTm coaches had a month to scheme for OU, adding new wrinkles.

  13. #90
    FB Moderator Bamabuzzard's Avatar
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    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    Quote Originally Posted by 257WBY View Post
    LSU is one of the few teams that can match up physically with Alabama. Take that talent level and add a QB that is a run threat and you have an incredible offense. A QB who is a threat as an athlete is the key.
    Absolutely! That's in any offense. But now we're getting away from it being the scheme and more toward athletic superiority. My point (so it won't get lost) in this entire thread is that I do not believe the spread offense in and of itself is that dominant. I think the tempo is what keeps defenses from adjusting and makes a living on defensive players having to resort to sandlot play due to the lack of time to make presnap adjustments or substitutions. Then you throw in a superior athlete and you've got a monster to handle.
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  14. #91
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

    Quote Originally Posted by 257WBY View Post
    Baylor rushed for 306 yards in the bowl to UCLAs 33. That's a gimmick most anyone will take. The reality is that Alabama will need to adjust to a smaller, faster defense against Aggie and Ole Miss. No big deal.
    as we've seen time and time again, stats (offensive or defensive) put up against big 12 or pac 12 teams, especially in bowl games, don't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.
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