Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

Bamabuzzard

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Alabama's defensive brain trust learned a lot during our last meeting. I don't think you guys have to worry about preparing for the 2013 Alabama offense. Everyone knows what's coming.

What y'all will have do is deal with the 2013 defense, which now knows that it needs to rush five guys while disguising the over/under using a variety of nickel and dime packages.

It will be a different game and remember, Alabama was one play from winning the last one.
And the further we get away from that game the more people's memory think aTm blew us out. I had to "remind" an aTm fan that they only scored 8 pts after the first quarter. He didn't believe me. I pulled out my Iphone, went to the box score and showed it to him. His response was "I didn't realize that."

We got beat. Fair and square. But if aTm was that much better than us and that type offense was that unstoppable. They wouldn't have lost two games and would have scored more than 8 pts in three quarters once we made adjustments. It will be interesting to see the further adjustments we make for next year. And on top of that our defense will be better in 2013. Can't wait.
 

KrAzY3

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And the further we get away from that game the more people's memory think aTm blew us out.
I wonder if they know Alabama gained more yards as well. I give Texas A&M a lot of credit, but even with their catching Alabama off-guard in the first quarter, they don't win without Alabama turning the ball over.

Texas A&M deserves a lot of credit, but Alabama lost the turnover battle 3-0 and this was uncharacteristic. Texas A&M scored two of their touchdowns after Alabama turnovers. It took a lot of things for A&M to win that game. They did, they deserve credit, but it should be viewed in the proper context.

For instance, just because they beat Alabama does not automatically mean they would beat Notre Dame. If Notre Dame won the turnover battle I imagine the game might look like the LSU game. I also might upset some SEC fans, but I think Notre Dame was a better team than LSU. LSU didn't just lose three games, they also looked unimpressive against Auburn, Ole Miss, and Arkansas. They played their best game of the year against Alabama.
 
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Mystical

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Sounds like Keven Sumlin is being dismissed for the season they had. Unlike Chizik Sumlin has a track record of winning. Seems to me Sumlin changed his offense to fit his personnel. At Houston he had a statue behind center and the offense was not so hurry up.
 

KrAzY3

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Sounds like Keven Sumlin is being dismissed for the season they had.
Not I.

Post game media was asking this sort of question. Who is the second best team in college football, Texas A&M or Oregon? Oregon has a loss, Texas A&M has two, Notre Dame has one. But, they were out of the conversation even though they're the only one with an undefeated regular season. That's disrespectful.

Then, to make matters worse, I kept seeing how Oregon would have been a better game. Based on what? Based on the fact that Oregon usually scores a lot of points? Let's ignore that they gave up 52 points in one game, let's ignore that they might have been completely unable to make Alabama punt and go into flights of fancy. Stanford held Oregon to 14 points, and LSU held A&M to 19 points mid-season. Alabama doesn't turn the ball over and they hold A&M to under 20 most likely. They didn't turn the ball over against Notre Dame and they blew them out.

This is not to disrespect what those schools have accomplished! They did very well, but it's disrespectful and misinformed in my mind to make that into they are the next two best teams in college football. The numbers simply don't back that up. Notre Dame beat Stanford, Stanford was the Pac-12 champion. Texas A&M was held under 20 points twice and gave up 57 points once. Yes, two very good programs, but better than Notre Dame? Based on what?

Their offenses look good on paper, and perform well most of the time. But, they can and have been shut down. They are not unbeatable, they are not unstoppable and it's proof enough that Alabama's slower offense was never held below 20 points while both of these "unstoppable" offenses were. That's just reality.
 
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Bamabuzzard

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Sounds like Keven Sumlin is being dismissed for the season they had. Unlike Chizik Sumlin has a track record of winning. Seems to me Sumlin changed his offense to fit his personnel. At Houston he had a statue behind center and the offense was not so hurry up.

I don't think that is the case. Kevin Sumlin is an EXCELLENT football coach and I think most on here have a lot of respect for him, the aTm program and the aTm team.

I think people (aTm fans included) such as the media and others are trying to make too much out of that one win aTm had against us. They won........ONE REGULAR SEASON GAME. And with that one regular season win it's like a lot of people are dismissing the fact they lost two SEC games. The season is more than just one game. It is a 12 game marathon. And in that twelve game marathon we proved to be the best team in the west and eventually went on to prove to be the best team in the SEC. So the best team the SEC had, played in the national championship game.

But come hell or high water it seems a lot of people are doing their best to try to convince others that Alabama really wasn't the best SEC team. That since aTm beat us then some how they "really are" the best team. Which is a total joke.
 
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Mystical

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I don't think that is the case. Kevin Sumlin is an EXCELLENT football coach and I think most on here have a lot of respect for him, the aTm program and the aTm team.

I think people (aTm fans included) such as the media and others are trying to make too much out of that one win aTm had against us. They won........ONE REGULAR SEASON GAME. And with that one regular season win it's like a lot of people are dismissing the fact they lost two SEC games. The season is more than just one game. It is a 12 game marathon. And in that twelve game marathon we proved to be the best team in the west and eventually went on to prove to be the best team in the SEC. So the best team the SEC had played in the national champion ship game.

But come hell or high water it seems a lot of people are doing their best to try to convince others that the wrong SEC team played in the NCG, and I totally disagree.
I know we are the best team in the Country, and I don't think number 2 is all that close. I just find it funny that all the credit for ATM goes to Johnny. Anyone with eyes can see this is a totally different team from last year on both sides of the ball. I did not know this but when they were explaining how ATM was able to man handled Ok, they were saying that Sumlin implemented his offense to run smash mouth against the defense to toughen them up. It took the entire season, but by the end, their defense sorta looked like a middle of the road SEC defense. We are a better team than ATM plain and simple, heck we are a better team than everyone in the country. Does anyone believe if Mike Sherman were still the coach they would have only lost 2 games this year? In case anyone is wondering I believe we would have beat ATM by at least 21 points if we had played them Monday night.
 

jagvocate

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"But come hell or high water it seems a lot of people are doing their best to try to convince others that the wrong SEC team played in the NCG, and I totally disagree."

I haven't seen that sentiment anywhere. I have seen people saying that A&M was better than ND, but I honestly haven't seen one person say 'Bama shouldn't have been in the BCS Championship.

Anyways, for those worried about Sumlin's "gimmicks," the next gimmicky thing he's going to do is have really tall receivers -- all ranging between 6'3" and 6'7"
 

257WBY

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The ONE REGULAR season game was at a point that Alabama knew all it had to do was win out to be in the NCS. Thank goodness the Baylor gimmick offense beat Kansas St. Oregon-Stanford was very similar to Tamu-Alabama, except Alabama got the SEC benefit of the doubt and deservedly so.
 

Bamabuzzard

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"But come hell or high water it seems a lot of people are doing their best to try to convince others that the wrong SEC team played in the NCG, and I totally disagree."

I haven't seen that sentiment anywhere. I have seen people saying that A&M was better than ND, but I honestly haven't seen one person say 'Bama shouldn't have been in the BCS Championship.

Anyways, for those worried about Sumlin's "gimmicks," the next gimmicky thing he's going to do is have really tall receivers -- all ranging between 6'3" and 6'7"
Since the national championship game, if I heard a reference to aTm's win over Alabama one time, I've heard it a million. And it seem to have started with Urban Cryer's post game crawfishin' Monday night. Whether it be on a message board, ESPN post game comments (even days after the game) or just sports talk radio in general . It seems no one can talk about Alabama without qualifying their win with two things. 1. aTm's win in T-Town and 2. aTm's performance against Oklahoma. But conveniently never mentioning that aTm lost two SEC games.

Has anyone point blank come out and said "Alabama wasn't really the best team."? No. But the implication certainly is in the shadows.
 

rgw

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Do I think schedule placement worked to the Aggies advantage? Heck yes. I know everyone here has seen us play the Bulldogs after LSU from 2007-2011. In 2007, we have an absolutely crap game after falling to LSU in the last 5 minutes which precipitated an all out collapse to the season. From 2008 through 2011 the games weren't close on the final scoreboard but Alabama regularly sloped around in these games before putting it away in the second half. Really, it was typically a bad first quarter that was consistent in all the MSU games.

That is why I had a red alert going on in my mind and this board before the game. Considering our post-LSU history under Saban, I anticipated a sluggish start. This season the Aggies were a team that started fast in every single game they've played. The fact that we found ourselves in an early deficit wasn't surprising to me but they couldn't save themselves in the first 15. Hold them to 10-14 points and I thought we could crack their defense eventually. We gave up 3 TDs with one missed XP and that put us in a bind because that meant holding them under 10 points the rest of the game to even have a chance given our typical offensive output in SEC games.

It's a testament to our team that they did just that: they held them to 9 more points but the problem was they couldn't get to that magical 30+ point barrier where we rarely lose. They were close but they didn't get it done...one more play early could have made all the difference late.

The rivals talk about "all the favors we get from the SEC Front Office"...I kind of scoff at the stuff they mention as favoritism. The movement of TAMU in our schedule was a pretty big favor from the SEC but I don't know if it is intentional. I think they just see that TAMU-Alabama is going to be a big game long term and CBS probably wanted it moved around to better fit their national broadcast schedule.

CBS likes having easy choices each week for their national game and I imagine they didn't like that several of their best options this season were absolutely uninteresting. This is probably going to be the new Florida-Tennessee for CBS. You know, an early season game that is a solid ratings grab. UF-UT had been a bell cow for them for a while but Tennessee has fallen off the cliff. Arkansas-Alabama has kind of been that game for them lately but Arkansas never draws the kind of national interest you get with the Aggies.
 
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KrAzY3

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Oregon-Stanford was very similar to Tamu-Alabama
Firstly, Kansas St. can't stop this style offense. That's the lesson we learned, but that doesn't make it less of a gimmick.

Anyway, no it wasn't. Alabama ran 12 less plays than Oregon and still had more yards. 77 plays and 14 points, with a plus two turnover margin and less penalty yards. The fact is that Stanford stopped the Oregon offense cold. The only reason it was as close as it was, is because Stanford lost the turnover battle 3-1. Stanford completely outplayed Oregon. I'd have to guess you didn't watch the game if you came away saying it was similar.

2. aTm's performance against Oklahoma.
I was cheering for A&M in that game, but it's also a case of amnesia.
Notre Dame @ Oklahoma: 34-13
Texas A&M (in Texas) vs. Oklahoma: 41-13.

Great game Aggies but they're still reading too much into it.
 
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rgw

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Oklahoma is a program on the downward slope. I know the fans are getting restless over their lack of physicality. They are blaming the S&C coach for some of it but, in my opinion, a good bit of it is scheme though. They've always been a team that would rather pass on 3rd and short than run other than the Peterson years. They don't have the mentality of a physical team from the outset. Their S&C coach may be poor but you have to call attitude plays to create a culture of physical attitude.

It's hard to say what TAMU would be if they stayed in the Big-12 but short term I believe they would have won that conference this year. Long term, I think the recruiting dividends are going to be enough to keep them competing at a high level with Sumlin even after Manziel. Look at that letter Luke Joeckel wrote to the fans upon his declaration. He thanked the administration for the move to the SEC which "gave him a platform to reach his dreams." You couldn't pay money and get better recruiting advertisement than that.
 

AggieMom

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And the further we get away from that game the more people's memory think aTm blew us out. I had to "remind" an aTm fan that they only scored 8 pts after the first quarter. He didn't believe me. I pulled out my Iphone, went to the box score and showed it to him. His response was "I didn't realize that."

We got beat. Fair and square. But if aTm was that much better than us and that type offense was that unstoppable. They wouldn't have lost two games and would have scored more than 8 pts in three quarters once we made adjustments. It will be interesting to see the further adjustments we make for next year. And on top of that our defense will be better in 2013. Can't wait.

It was actually 9 pts, but whose counting.
 

Bamabuzzard

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It was actually 9 pts, but whose counting.
So what? 8-9, it's immaterial. The point is our staff made defensive adjustments that worked on the "unstoppable" offense. Ultimately we lost the game, but I think it is safe to say Saban and staff has a bead on how to game plan from here on out. Plus, not having to follow the game up a week after the LSU game will dramatically help.
 

AggieMom

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Firstly, Kansas St. can't stop this style offense. That's the lesson we learned, but that doesn't make it less of a gimmick.

Anyway, no it wasn't. Alabama ran 12 less plays than Oregon and still had more yards. 77 plays and 14 points, with a plus two turnover margin and less penalty yards. The fact is that Stanford stopped the Oregon offense cold. The only reason it was as close as it was, is because Stanford lost the turnover battle 3-1. Stanford completely outplayed Oregon. I'd have to guess you didn't watch the game if you came away saying it was similar.


I was cheering for A&M in that game, but it's also a case of amnesia.
Notre Dame @ Oklahoma: 34-13
Texas A&M (in Texas) vs. Oklahoma: 41-13.

Great game Aggies but they're still reading too much into it.
Not sure how you can say that KState can't stop this style offense since they beat every other B12 school (several with this style of offense) this year. Does WVU come to mind? I personally think that KState couldn't hold up to pressure of being on the big stage. That and Baylor finally figured out how to play a little defense the 2nd half of the season. While ND did beat Ok in their place, if I recall correctly it was close to late in the game and they didn't dominate as aTm did in the 2nd half. And while the Cotton Bowl is a neutral site, Ok does have a strong recruiting presence in Tx, thus their preference to play RRS against UT every year in Dallas. Not sure that you can call (in Texas) an advantage for aTm, since Norman is about as close to Dallas as College Station is.
 

rgw

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Yep. OU has never had a problem making a 50-50 split against Texas in Dallas.

The fact is that OU just wasn't that good. Texas, Baylor, and Oklahoma State were the only worthwhile teams they beat...and they struggled to beat the last two. They lost to the three best teams they played (KSU, ND, and TAMU) and only Kansas State was close.
 

AggieMom

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So what? 8-9, it's immaterial. The point is our staff made defensive adjustments that worked on the "unstoppable" offense. Ultimately we lost the game, but I think it is safe to say Saban and staff has a bead on how to game plan from here on out. Plus, not having to follow the game up a week after the LSU game will dramatically help.
Wasn't trying to pick a fight -- just thought accuracy was important. Sorry if I offended.
I'm sure that not playing 9 games straight (the last 2 on the road) with no bye week, might help aTm as well. Actually I think aTm having 2 tuneup games before Al comes to town may be as important as Al having a bye week before. Sumlin appears to know how to get his team ready for straight games even away games as shown by this past seasons run. I guess we will have to wait til September to find out.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Wasn't trying to pick a fight -- just thought accuracy was important. Sorry if I offended.
I'm sure that not playing 9 games straight (the last 2 on the road) with no bye week, might help aTm as well. Actually I think aTm having 2 tuneup games before Al comes to town may be as important as Al having a bye week before. Sumlin appears to know how to get his team ready for straight games even away games as shown by this past seasons run. I guess we will have to wait til September to find out.
It should be a donnybrook...
 

bamadp

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No one is "dismissing" Sumlin or A&M, but some like myself aren't ready to jump on the "A&M is gonna be a powerhouse in the SEC" bandwagon after one year. The reality is, they won two games (Bama and Ole Miss) that they easily could have, and probably should have lost. Congrats to them for finding a way to win, but holding on against Bama does not make A&M a top SEC team. Their other conference wins came against Auburn, Arkansas, Miss St., and Missouri...not exactly powerhouses this year. I'm not saying A&M can't or won't be a top SEC team, nor am I hoping for that. I'm just saying that they need to "walk the walk" before they "talk the talk"...while a win over Bama is a good first step, that's all it is, a first step. Fans and media have seemed to parlay one win over Bama and a bowl win over Oklahoma into "Juggernaut" status for A&M.
 

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